Any German-speaking units out there?

[dclarry]

Are there any units out there today specifically portraying German-seaking units from the Civil War? I think this would be particularly interesting.


Lawrence Kingsley
BTTY F, 1st PA LT ATTY


(Please excuse this very basic post, but I did not find any unit information via the search tool.)

[J.H.Berger]

Sure, but far away out there;-)
Feel free to contact us.
www.17thmissouri.de

[JacobReichwein]

We have a mess called Des Teufels Mess (the Devils Mess). Not sure yet if were going to speak all in German, but we are working on getting the basic manuvers and commands translated. Most of our guys take or have taken German in school, so we know enough to get by.www.geocities.com/desteufelsmess. not sure if this helps but worth a shot.

[Gerry]

Ya, I agree with Patrick

Try Des Teufels Mess

[dclarry]

I had a PM on Des Teufels Mess a few days ago. This side of the Atlantic, the only reponse is from them. Danke sehr!

Lawrence Kingsley

[Lone Guard]

In the 1st California you can hear a little German in camp, but we're not a completely immersed German unit.

Des Teufels Mess

Great mess name!

[Rmhisteach]

I have been at several events in Wisconsin this summer . The boys of the 33rd Wisconsin, Hard head Mess, Hoggs Mess, & Mess #3 all have slight fragrance of Sauerkrat in them.

Rod Miller
Old Pards
Cornfed Comrades
Old Northwest Volunteers

[J.H.Berger]

Kameraden,
it would be nice to get in contact with you! Although we are "real" Germans living in the "Alten Heimat" it could be quite fertile.
Feel free to contact me: janhb@t-online.de

[MBBursig]

Hallo,

The unit I belong to, represents the 52nd New York, which was almost an all- German regiment recruited from NY's immigrant population during the war.

A couple of our members are of German descent, myself included, and we occasionally throw our hand at German Drill commands. (From what I remember, there is sort of a debate of whether or not commands were issued in German 100% of the time, as many of the officers were educated in and had a good grasp of English and French, and technically speaking it would be out of sync with the Army. There were some older posts on here before, speaking of this.)

Instead of attempting a "full on" German immigrant impression, we simply explain to the public the history. Of course, there are times where we do "first person" at some small Living Histories. I am the only member of the unit who has any real understanding of German, so I am left to "be the German" most of the time.

[SC Jay]

Bachman's battery was one of 3 batteries in the German Artillery, a militia unit founded is 1842 in Charleston. All the enlisted spoke German. We were trying commands in German until we got horses. Then it was too complicated. Cpl Carlson , late of the CSS Hunley, was from Wagener's battery and was from Germany or Denmark. I played "Ich Hatt Einen Kameraden" at the grave site on Sunday after the Hunley funeral.
Jay Walker, bugler
Bachman's Battery

[Prodical Reb]

Don Heitman, used to have the 32nd Indiana Volunteer Infantry reg't or 1st German Regiment who were originally mostly German immigrants. The Regiment originally drilled "auf Deutch". Don Reenactment company also drilled in German. It was quite impressive to see them drill. All command were given in German. I don't know if they are still in existance or not. Don has retired from Reenacting and still lives in Indianapolis. He is the author of Simpified Hardee's tactics. This is the Only Reenactment group I have ever heard of drilling in German.
Here is a web page to the 32nd Indiana:

http://www.geocities.com/ind32ndinfantry/

[markj]

Don Heitman, used to have the 32nd Indiana Volunteer Infantry reg't or 1st German Regiment who were originally mostly German immigrants. The Regiment originally drilled "auf Deutch". Don Reenactment company also drilled in German. It was quite impressive to see them drill. All command were given in German. I don't know if they are still in existance or not. Don has retired from Reenacting and still lives in Indianapolis. He is the author of Simpified Hardee's tactics. This is the Only Reenactment group I have ever heard of drilling in German.
Here is a web page to the 32nd Indiana:

http://www.geocities.com/ind32ndinfantry/

Hi Mike,

I'm familiar with Don Heitman and the 32nd Indiana (I was once a member). With malice toward none and with charity for all, let me be as delicate and cordial as possible in saying the 32nd's way of doing things had the same amount of relevance to an authentic German impression as an accordion does to deer hunting. In short, it was largely based on "received wisdom," less-than-thorough research, and a whole lot of (incorrect) assumptions.

I did take the time to research many of the 32nd's most cherished notions to the point where I even went to several august institutions, not the least of which was the National Archives. I discovered a lot of fascinating things during my searches...but none of them verified what the 32nd elected to put forth.

To wit: a simple, and systematic, review of the 1847 Royal Prussian Infantry "Exerzier-Reglement," which was the standard tactical manual of the day, clearly shows that Prussian tactical formations were very different than what was proposed in Hardee/Casey. Prussian company wartime T/O strength was over twice that of their American counterparts (there were only four companies in a Prussian battalion!), placement of NCO's and officers was significantly different, and the Prussian Army's adoption of the Model 1841 Zundnadelgewehr ("Needle Gun") also affected how units were deployed. "Dutch" units likely did, at least initially, use German commands (especially during the instructional phase), but there was no way they could have blended "Prussian drill," as it was taught in the manuals with Hardee-style tactics without creating a world-class cluster f***.
By the same token, I have found quite a bit of evidence indicating that "German" (more likely Prussian) bugle calls were adopted, at least in part, by a number of Federal units. Therefore, if a reenacting unit would like to put together a decent Dutch impression, it should definitely take a look at using the unique Preussiche Hornsignale whenever possible.

Very truly yours, &c.,

Mark Jaeger

[Prodical Reb]

I'm familiar with Don Heitman and the 32nd Indiana (I was once a member). With malice toward none and with charity for all, let me be as delicate and cordial as possible in saying the 32nd's way of doing things had the same amount of relevance to an authentic German impression as an accordion does to deer hunting. In short, it was largely based on "received wisdom," less-than-thorough research, and a whole lot of (incorrect) assumptions.

Mark, no malice taken! None intended here either! In all of my reenacting days this has been my only experience with a unit giving commands in German. True they are/were a mainstream unit. The time frame was mid eighties and I was ignorant of C/H/P units then. I was new to reenacting also. I left my beloved hobby to join the real army in 1987; I started reenacting again after I returned from Iraq in 2004, and figured C/P/H/ because i wanted a more correct impression. Maybe the 32nd has done the same by now. I was not in the 32nd IVI but I knew them and Don wasn't a slacker! (not a campaigner either but to take a group of CW reenactors and to drill them in german with no english spoken says enough).

In short it was relevant to the thread so I put it out there. The thread didn't ask about Prussian tactics, formations or organization.

I could also imagine that many of the original "1st German Regimant" spoke german, and it is not a far distance to imagine them drilling Hardees or Casey's drill with commands translated from English to German. Many immigrants when they first came to America formed micro-societies and communities with other like immigrants and had no need to speak english within these communities. (ie - Chinatown) I'd bet they were like this too. I'm from Evansville's west side which was predominantly settled by German immigrants, my ancestors are among those settling on the west side for that reason. There is still a strong German influence around that area 5 generations later.

[fahtz]

Does anyone remember the days of the German and the Norwegian command primers? I think it came out of the great north (Wisconsin). That was my first exposure to German commands. I am a second generation German/Czech so I grew up hearing German thrown about. In my years of living history I have often thought of this concept, but shrugged it off. I would love to field with a core group of fellows dropping German-glish around the camp fire.

[edgeinwi]

Does anyone remember the days of the German and the Norwegian command primers? I think it came out of the great north (Wisconsin).

That would have been my old unit, the 3rd Wisconsin, that did the German and Norwegian primers. Former members Jeffrey Diehl and Nels Monson researched the commands for German and Norwegian. For a couple of years in the early 90's, we showcased the 15th Wisconsin (Norwegian) and the 26th Wisconsin (German) and performed all the commands in the respective languages.
I don't remember to many of the commands anymore nor can I remember where I put the paper copies of the commands, but a pard of mine might know. Go to the Old Northwest Volunteers website (oldnorthwestvols.org) and post a message for Dave Frohmader. He may be able to help you out with this.

[maineman]

Try Alta Vistas "Babel Fish" for translation. Make sure that you back translate to make sure the message doesnt get "lost in the translation"

Keep Taking your blue mass!

Pvt. Steven Henry
Co. A 3rd Maine Volunteer Infantry

Bath City Greys

[MBBursig]

Early on when I started to research a German impression I thought it very keen to use the online translators for drill commands. Then after taking German in college, and taking advice from German relatives I made amends to that "route". The problem is, the online translators tend to be very literal, and German is not an easy language to boot. If you are usually searching a word or phrase they tend to work, but I noticed I was creating improper sentences.

This may be helpful:

http://www.first-virginia.de/Taktik/gilham.htm

Prosit,