Camp Hygiene

[Jerry Gouge]

All kidding aside, I did a search and found nothing on the forums on this subject. If it is there would someone please direct me to it. I am interested to hear what learned campaigners do in order to maintain both personal and camp hygiene. There is alot of room to catch the flux while at events. I would like to do all possible to avoid such problems. And I would like to address the issues in a period correct manner (obviously ignoring the fact that there was little known at the time regarding such issues).

[Kevin O'Beirne]

Using period-correct methods for a weekend-long event is certainly sufficient in most cases for maintaining proper sanitary conditions that both lend "authenticity" to an event and protect participants' health.

When I'm in a command position, for example, if this hasn't already been done by higher authority (whether in the military command or by the site owner/operator), I designate an area for sinks and tell guys to use them. Knowing that "water takes the path of least resistance" this often results in one area for "solids" and one for "liquids"--knowing you won't get a fellow to walk 200 yards through the woods at night to take a wizz. That said, it's still necessary to keep wastes away from the camp and away from areas where others may come across them, whether it's during the event (other participants, spectators) or after the event (site owner/manager).

It's the old axiom of recognizing the need and telling folks what to do, and often they see the logic in it and do what they're told.

[Jerry Gouge]

Using period-correct methods for a weekend-long event is certainly sufficient in most cases for maintaining proper sanitary conditions that both lend "authenticity" to an event and protect participants' health.

When I'm in a command position, for example, if this hasn't already been done by higher authority (whether in the military command or by the site owner/operator), I designate an area for sinks and tell guys to use them. Knowing that "water takes the path of least resistance" this often results in one area for "solids" and one for "liquids"--knowing you won't get a fellow to walk 200 yards through the woods at night to take a wizz. That said, it's still necessary to keep wastes away from the camp and away from areas where others may come across them, whether it's during the event (other participants, spectators) or after the event (site owner/manager).

It's the old axiom of recognizing the need and telling folks what to do, and often they see the logic in it and do what they're told.

I agree wholeheartedly. So do you think it is cool to compromise on authenticity for the sake of modern day health concerns? The idea of sinks for a campaign scenario when they might not have had time to set up a "fixed" camp.

[Old Reb]

Compromise is what is wrong with the hobby. No compromise on sinks! Once you compromise on one thing, it is easier to farb out.

[pipthelimey]

Jerry,
The most likely sources of internal distress are most likely to come from not washing our hands post-dookie-making, not washing eating utensils/plates/pots, and under-cooked meat. Whether at a streamerfest or a c/p/h event, take a bar of soap and a rag to the sinks, and wash up afterwards.

Andrew Jerram

[Kevin O'Beirne]

do you think it is cool to compromise on authenticity for the sake of modern day health concerns?

To a certain extent, yes. If I were to reply "No" to that, it would also wind up including things like not bringing modern, necessary medications to an event, or not carrying somewhere in the company or battalion kit a modern first-aid kit (like our group always does). Reenacting entails some unavoidable risk, like many other endeavors, but frankly I don't believe that telling folks to take a dump "over there" instead of "just anywhere" is that big of a compromise on authenticity.

The idea of sinks for a campaign scenario when they might not have had time to set up a "fixed" camp.

I kind of agree with you there, but I wasn't talking about "sinks" per se in my post above, and I apologize for any miscommunication on my part. Rather, what I meant, and what we usually do at "campaign" scenario events, is to designate a certain area as "do it over there". Unless we are in a static impression scenario, such as the "Winter 1864" events, we do not typically dig sinks.

[biddler165]

I agree with Tom. We shouldn't compromise. We talk about living in the "moment", well there is nothing that kills the momemt for me than seeing a port-o-john. An area for sinks needs to be designated and marked for use and their use needs to be enforced. A bit of water and soap after using the sinks will help keep bacteria and germs from spreading. As we all know, disease took more soldiers out of combat than bullets.

[JimConley]

If I were to reply "No" to that, it would also wind up including things like not bringing modern, necessary medications to an event
Yeah, and that would NOT be good. Aside from the importance of health, I remember a kid at Franklin 2004 didn't take his mood-balancing meds because he thought that it was not authentic. The kid freaked out and introduced a tree to someone else's musket like he was knocking a home run outta Fenway Park.

[Charles Heath]

We've tried issuing soap, but the men eat it like cheese.

(Adm. Duffer, this one is for you.)

[Drygoods]

Taking this into another direction, somewhat, I would like to know just how many people, soldier or civilian, use commodes or chamber pots? When I used to run a period boarding house, we used chamber pots, commodes, and had an outhouse with each being cleaned every morning. I found that having boiled water from 5 AM to 10 PM was necessary near the washstand. All washwater was dumped out on the front porch to keep the dust down.

However, the thing is this, most people have a fit if you tell them that is all they have to accommodate their needs. It took quite a while of convincing before people would accept that was their only choice beyond walking out to the outdoors. What I wonder is what do the civilians do in camp? I seldom see chamber pots or commodes in tents and so figure that most families resort to the portypotty day or night.

For those who haven't seen a true commode, it's a small table like device with a compartment and lid, seat, and with a pot inside. Another variation for relief is a chair with a small lid with the pot in a small box underneath the seat. Believe me, I've even seen these as rocking chairs! Now, who'd want to rock with that sort of mess??? When our children were little my husband built a bed trunk style box that had compartments for the pots and holes cut for use. I never see folks keeping these at events, but then they are sort of a private kind of thing.

The whole prospect of this idea is that I wonder how many people really live in a period style or depend upon those portypotties? :tounge_sm

[MomKelly]

Taking this into another direction, somewhat, I would like to know just how many people, soldier or civilian, use commodes or chamber pots?

The whole prospect of this idea is that I wonder how many people really live in a period style or depend upon those portypotties? :tounge_sm



I use a chamber pot in my tent at every event. and rarely use the blue accomidations during the day. when faced with those who find the idea of my chamber pot gross... I simply explain that I know who used my chamber pot last. do you know who used the blue accomidations last??? and they seem to see it in another light.. but not sure how many are willing to convert... though I have converted a few...

Catherine

[NoahBriggs]

We used thunderpots at Peaks Mill in Sept. 05. Nobody had a problem using them. I should know. I dumped the contents into the nearby portapotty as part of my cleaning duties around the inn.

I also used one at Winter of 64. We were encouraged to bring cans and chamberpots to the event. The fact that the sinks were about 100 yards away in temperatures in the low teens with a high wind chill probably contributed to my desire to use the local commode instead of trudging to the sinks.

I dumped it at the sinks the next morning. No big deal; pee will not kill you, and in some cases urea is even good at curing illnesses. If you are still grossed out, the commode manufacturers invented a great device called a "lid". :p

Once you start learning to think as they did, understanding why they did certain things, and things such as (but not limited to) chamber pots, sponge baths, cooking over a fire, and wearing wool all begin to make more sense and less like camping in funny clothes.

[flattop32355]

As we all know, disease took more soldiers out of combat than bullets.

Which is why I respectfully submit that reasonable health and safety compromises in today's world of reenacting the past are not out of line. Otherwise, you must make the same arguement against using blanks rather than real bullets, etc. It is only a matter of degree and probability between the two.

If I'm really at war, with all it's inherent risks, it's one thing. If I'm expected to show up Monday morning to support my family, it's another.

Farbism or reality check? You make the call.

[PogueMahone]

The only time I've gotten seriously ill as the result of reenacting is the time I ate undercooked chicken and got food poisoning. (I couldn't tell if it was done or not because I was cooking it in the dark over a fire. I kid you not.)

I think one of the questions going un-answered here is whether or not dug sinks are correct while on campaign. I believe the answer is: it depends.

If the scenario is such that the army has marched 20 miles and stopped to bivouac at midnight, then no, I doubt anyone would have dug sinks.

If the scenario is such that the army has marched 10 miles, stopped at 4 p.m. to go into bivouac, then there is time and energy to designate the sinks and have a slit trench dug.

We dug sinks everyday on RR2. It wasn't that big a deal.

Of course, I always think about that pic from the Richmond POW camp that shows men sitting on the log, dumping into the stream that runs through camp. Who wants to try that scenario?

[Spinster]

I seldom see chamber pots or commodes in tents and so figure that most families resort to the portypotty day or night.

The whole prospect of this idea is that I wonder how many people really live in a period style or depend upon those portypotties? :tounge_sm

Hmmmm---well, the fact is, in our general circle, we've insisted on them at least at night for years, if for nothing more than the safety aspect of not having girls making journeys in the darkness with soldiers about--and I don't give a flying flip if its a whole gaggle of girls, they are still not going (foot stomping down rather firmly). :sarcastic

Daytime use of the portas is by their own choice, except when a woman is pregnant--no portalets for her. Doctor's orders.

For a number of years, we've had a maker of 'improper commodes' in our little group of travelers--and by improper, I mean a wood box with a seat, a lid, a five gallon plastic bucket, and no pretense of it being true period construction, other than its wooden. We still use these for events where we have to accomodate a dozen or so folks for the span of a weekend, due to the high capacity, and the fact that I can hammer the lid on, and haul it to a proper disposal site.

Recently, our maker has moved up in the world, outfitted his shop, done some excellent research, and is now producing a number of styles of period commodes, made to accomodate the chamber pot of the owners choice. Those are dandy things--and by outer appearance, lovely and graceful little tables.

Chambers get emptied at a designated area after breakfast is done, and filled and swished with the remaining soapy dishwater, before being placed upside down to dry, usually out the back door of the structure or tent we are using.

Dug sinks are made for those events where such is appropriate, using a combination of natural shelter and painted cloth to arrange a bit of privacy.

Warm water and soap is often available--though I do not keep a kettle on all the time. Cold water and soap is still a reasonable alternative. And, I may also have a corked bottle labeled 'carbolic', full of modern hand sanitizer--and that's only marginally a period label, as Lister's work was not widely accepted at that point, and was not used outside the operating room--still, its a clue for us.

If, by force of volume, bad firewood, rain or other calamity, adequate hot dishwashing water is not available, I set up a three bucket system--one soapy wash, one rinse in water with chlorine bleach added, one rinse in clear water. Don't know if it works, but it helps my feelings.

Finally, if push comes to shove, somewhere in the gear I normally have a set of heavy duty rubber gloves---with their common use being when I am working with a caustic chemical in setting up a dyepot. Sometimes those rubber gloves do get used with latrine cleaning as well.

[Charles Heath]

Joe,

You'd have enjoyed the two-holer outhouse at Retreat From Rude's Hill. It wasn't as "detailed" as your outhouse from TAG, but it sufficed.

[Elizabeth Miller]

I love my chamberpot. Now, it may not be the right thing to have at some events, depending on the scenario (did they grab them as they fled? Interesting research idea...), but when it fits in there is nothing more handy at night or when it is raining. When my son was a baby it was just not feasable to walk across the site at night and leave him alone, and now that he is potty training he won't make it across the site before he would present me with some very period laundry to do! And there is nothing more out of place in my frame of mind than the bright blue of the portajohn - I'm glad it isn't nearby. I wish I had a seat for the chamberpot, but oh, well. A daytime trip to the portajohn to empty and a little vinegar keeps everything fresh after. I even have an extra one to loan, but no one will take me up on it :wink_smil
Joanna Jones

[Charles Heath]

I took a few moments to re-read this thread. On one hand the thread was about the very important sanitary topic of digging sinks and castramentation while on campaign. Something folks did back then, and something folks do these days at some events. Now this thread has morphed into women in camp with pee thunder pots. Does the chamber pot go in the flap or bag side of the issue knapsack? Exactly.

[Old Reb]

Mr. Charles, you tie the chamber pot to your knapsack right beside your cast iron skillet so they bang against one another and let folks know you are coming.

[Charles Heath]

Mr. Charles, you tie the chamber pot to your knapsack right beside your cast iron skillet so they bang against one another and let folks know you are coming.

Uncle Tom,

Thanks. Anytime I need a scatological reference, there you are. :eek:

Sad to say, but most of the CPH wing of the hobby have not experienced the construction or use of sinks. Makes a fellow wonder what kind of events they attend.

[Kevin O'Beirne]

In support of Noah's post, the "Winter 1864" event has encouraged and "enforced" using improvised chamber pots by all its participants (60 to 65 per event) since 2004. Perhaps a down-and-dirty authenticity item to some, but we do it both for the reality/experience/act as they did aspect, as well as to preserve camp sanitation. The alternative is 60 guys all wizzing alongside or behind their huts for days, which may not be a wild hazard but it's both offensive and certainly not conducive to best health practices.

With regard to Joe's post, now we have "cooking chicken in the dark" to stand alongside "cooking bacon in the dark" in the Hall of Reenactor Cuisine Infamy, which I believe is located somewhere near Sharpsburg, Maryland. :p

[NoahBriggs]

In support of Kevin's support of my post, the officers' sinks were a good ways off in a gully, defended by an artillery embrasure, dug, had a wooden bench slim enough so you could sit down to do your business without the bench getting in the way, it had some semi-farby-but-still-necessary TP packets, and it had some canvas rigged to a frame for privacy. That canvas was a decent windbreak, too. It was about as real and accurate as one could get.

Proud to say I could whizz a hole through the ice at one draining,

[Drygoods]

I took a few moments to re-read this thread. On one hand the thread was about the very important sanitary topic of digging sinks and castramentation while on campaign. Something folks did back then, and something folks do these days at some events. Now this thread has morphed into women in camp with pee thunder pots. Does the chamber pot go in the flap or bag side of the issue knapsack? Exactly.

Well, Mr. Heath, you can easily blame me for the derailment, however, I'd like to remind you that more than likely past soldiers used commodes and chamber pots long before they ever had dug ditches. Now consider this, how many soldiers in this hobby have had to sit on the ground with a chamber pot? Not a pretty mental image I'm sure, but you have to consider the idea that many today have never attempted it. :tounge_sm Again, my apologies for getting off your topic &c.

Oh, and for a good location as to where to place the pot while marching, I suggest upside down and over the head, certain sure to keep the dust down and prevent tree limbs from knocking off the hat. :confused_

[Randy]

Thought I'd mention a picture I've seen of the commodes at Andersonville. It's interesting in that they look like a long bench built over a tiny stream that ran through the camp. It looks like they were initially enclosed with canvas over a framework, which the prisoners had appropriated for shelter-making. Thus, the commodes were completely open. Several prisoners can be seen "answering nature's call" in the photo, and they were also seen by Southern civilians who were afforded a look at the poor Yankee prisoners at Andersonville. ...Talk about humiliation! :eek: