CS frock coats

[JSchnak950]

Comrades,

I'm in the market to have someone make my first CS frock coat. I'm thinking of something very plain, representing commutation work. What sort of buttons would be most appropriate?

Thanks in advance,

Jeff, two things. Please sign your full name to all posts as outlined in the forum rules you agreed to abide by. Second, check the search function of the forum for possible answers to your question. - Mike Chapman

[Cornfed]

Comrades,

I'm in the market to have someone make my first CS frock coat. I'm thinking of something very plain, representing commutation work. What sort of buttons would be most appropriate?

Thanks in advance,

Jeff, two things. Please sign your full name to all posts as outlined in the forum rules you agreed to abide by. Second, check the search function of the forum for possible answers to your question. - Mike Chapman

Jeff,

I'd go with wooden buttons. Excellent ones can be purchased from Missouri Boot and Shoe. - Phil Maddox

[ewtaylor]

Jeff,

I'd go with wooden buttons. Excellent ones can be purchased from Missouri Boot and Shoe. - Phil Maddox

For Early, mid, or late War, plain brass buttons would be fine.

Everett taylor

[Jimmayo]

Couple of questions should be answered before you make any decision.

What period of the war are you portraying?
What Unit?
If a specific unit, have you done any research to see what that unit wore in the period you want to portray.

The answer to these questions will affect what kind of buttons should be worn. I don't know what survived the latest forum melt down but a forum search may turn up the answer to your question or at least make you more familiar as to what is to be considered.

[Eric Wisbith]

As far as a "generic" impression goes, a large percentage of the extant coats in EOG have Federal eagle buttons, so I rock those on my plain everyman frock.

[coastaltrash]

Wooden buttons? Plain coin buttons? Can you guys point to some originals with these buttons on them?

[GreencoatCross]

Too bad there aren't any reproduction CS general service eagle buttons.


Brian White

[Coatsy]

Jeff, a good first step would be to take a look at original pictures, early war period and go from there. With some pictures it might be hard to tell, but if you can snag some online try to use a magnification process and get a good close up.

I'd also take a look at the region you might be portraying a soldier from and take a look at some letters/journals and see if you can find any information there.

I hope this helps!

[JSchnak950]

Thanks to all who responded with constructive advice. For the record, I did a search on the board prior to asking. If this was hashed out in the past, its lost in cyberspace after the Great Crash of 2006. I've also looked at as many photos as I can, but most photos of CS enlisted frocks I've found are either from the militia/1st Manassas period and/or are too indistinct to determine the type of button. If you know where I can find better photos, please teach me How to Fish and point me in the right direction and I'll take it from there.

I'm not looking to copy a specific unit or battle. On the contrary, I'm hoping for this to be a good general service garment until the inevitable happens, and I fill my closet with all the specific cool depot jackets.

Thanks again,

Jeff

[Jimmayo]

General service eagle buttons.

Common for any CW period. I have some documentation for use on shell jackets on http://www.angelfire.com/ma4/j_mayo/csequip.html

[ewtaylor]

Jim,
I noticed on your website you mention Federal Eagle buttons are routinely found in CS camps. I agree, however you can find CS and US items in camps because many campsites would be used by both sides.
Here in Ky we find more flat buttons than anything else in CS camps. Granted these camps are 1861-1862 timeline, but I have a hard time believing these buttons weren't used on military coats or jackets.
I havent been able to see the coats and jackets in the MOC, but I do have a copy of their catalog. They state the backmarks for the buttons, however without seeing the actual buttons we cant tell which are period and which are post.
I'm not arguing about the use of Federal buttons, they were mass produced and would have been widely available for Southern tailors. I'm just saying civilian buttons were also widely available.
everett taylor

[Jimmayo]

Everett: I agree. There are always some flat buttons found in ANV CS camps however, I think they were on civilian attire more than uniforms. The earlier the camp, the more gilted and fancy type of civilian buttons are recovered. Perhaps this was due to the early use of civilian items but there is no way to be sure. Interestingly enough, I have found more flat buttons in US late war locations than in late CS locations. Years ago I hunted the Pamplin Park and Howlett Line area on the CS side of the trenches. Hardly found any flat buttons but mostly eagles, tin back block I and a smattering of state and other buttons. Back then I thought the eagle buttons in the Pamplin area were lost by the yankees after the breakthrough. Now I have come to the conclusion that more eagle buttons were in use by the Confederates than is generally thought. The US 5th, 6th and 9th corps camps along Flank Road in Petersburg were full of flat buttons of all sizes ranging from the size of a half dime to that of a silver dollar as well as eagle buttons. I have never figured what the big flat buttons were used on.

Some mid war CS camps along the Blackwater River yielded plain eagles, eagle I along with block letter and some state buttons. Hardly any flat buttons and when they were found they were small, possibly shirt or vest buttons.

Perhaps with the supply problems in your area more civilian garmets were worn and perhaps the military supply of buttons was not as efficient. It would be interesting to hear more specific information relating to time period and what was found from some of the hunters in the area.

One thing kind of unrelated that has always puzzled me. If buttons were scarce or difficult to come by, why didn't the Richmond Depot make jackets with fewer than 9 buttons. They could have gone to 7 like the CD jackets. One possible answer could be that they had enough military buttons of the desired type to furnish the jackets with 9. I wonder if anyone on the forum has any information along these lines?

After saying all of the above take a look at what came out of one spot about 4 by 4 feet. Some of everything. Shows how much my opinion is worth.

[Guy Gane III]

Im a personal fan of the large flat coin buttons, myself... :sarcastic , but if you want "everyday", I would go with wood (trans-miss)or eagle buttons(ANV).

Just my two cents...

[coastaltrash]

Where is the documentation on wooden buttons being Trans Miss or Eagle buttons being ANV? This is ALL broad stroke comments. Folks lets get back to documenting originals or using things in great amounts more than just saying what is a trend around the campfire!

[Jimmayo]

Post deleted due to lack of sanity.

[Iron Scout]

Gents,

A picture is worth a thousand words. SC issue frock coat c. April, 1862. Note the Eagle buttons; no backmark. Anybody able to point out a pattern similarity shared by the two extant Charleston depot jackets and the supposed Lyon's Atlanta jacket???? PS-Sorry guys, could only get one image to "take"; I'll keep trying....

Enjoy,

Neill Rose
PLHA

[RangerSWB]

Gents,

Frock coats shown in EOG-CS, pages 128-131, attributed to 1st Sgt. J. W. Lester, 10th GA Inf (ANV), 1st Cpl. R. A. Bomar, Hampton Legion (ANV) and Pvt. John Johnston, 29th AL Inf (AOT) all show eagle buttons FWIW.

Ranger
27th VA, Co. D
Stonewall Brigade

[fedhead]

I am interested in the size of federal eagle buttons used on confederate frock coats , are they the size found on fatigue blouses or the size of the buttons found on the federal greatcoat ? does there seem to be a common size used on all , do the frock coats mentioned in the last post have the same size buttons .

[Jimmayo]

I had the same question when getting buttons for a english army cloth RD II. I looked at this picture and several others trying to scale the size of the buttons against the coat. All I could come up with were they looked slightly bigger than a standard eagle button. I ended up using the overcoat buttons since I had enough on hand and they were old repros which are better than the ones in circulation now. They are also almost the same diameter as a script I but slightly fatter. They will fit the button holes. I was somewhat reluctant to use them as I have not found many of that size.