Quartermaster Records for 2nd US Cav

[DaveGink]

Hello, I am trying to locate the Quartermaster records for Co. A and Co. E of the 2nd US Cavalry throughout the war. If anyone knows if and where these exist I would greatly appreciate being pointed to the source.

Thanks!!
Dave

[ScottCross]

Dave,

If those records still exist, they would be in the National Archives. From my understanding, the QM records are unorganized and difficult to go through.

[DaveGink]

Dave,

If those records still exist, they would be in the National Archives. From my understanding, the QM records are unorganized and difficult to go through.

Thanks Scott!
I was hoping somewhere along the road and after all this time someone with a historical interest may have organized them. I can imagine what a mess they would be in however.

I'll check with the National Archives. If I discover anything interesting I will report back.

Thanks again!!
Dave

[Andrew German]

Dave,

What kind of information are you seeking?

I have National Archives microfilm of the quarterly ordnance reports that list weapons and horse equipments (down to the level of links and sabre knots). The reports are a bit spotty, basically extending from Dec. 1862 to Sept. 1864. They do not include clothing issues.

When I have time I could check those two companies for you if you want.

I see you are considering the comparative merits of the 1840 and 1860 sabres. The ordnance reports would confirm which is appropriate--the 1840s lasted much longer throughout the cavalry than you might expect. Because the 1st Maine (and other units I'm interested in) frequently carried "wristbreakers," I got one of those. There isn't much choice for that model. I got a Legendary Arms one and had Tom Nardi at Sword Restoration Services put a correct grip on it and remove the INDIA from the blade. He thought the blade and hilt were pretty well done. During the preservation march and skirmish at Unison, Virginia, last weekend I had a chance to put it to real use in a couple of dust-ups with the Valley Light Horse. Those fellows are experienced swordsmen, as my blade now shows. I found the 1840 grip a little awkward as it is smaller around and more tapered than the 1860 grip. However, the heft of the blade is a benefit.

Anyway, I hope this helps, and that any of you serious federal cavalrymen will come ride with us in Virginia someday.

Andrew German

[DaveGink]

Dave,

What kind of information are you seeking?

I have National Archives microfilm of the quarterly ordnance reports that list weapons and horse equipments (down to the level of links and sabre knots). The reports are a bit spotty, basically extending from Dec. 1862 to Sept. 1864. They do not include clothing issues.

When I have time I could check those two companies for you if you want.

I see you are considering the comparative merits of the 1840 and 1860 sabres. The ordnance reports would confirm which is appropriate--the 1840s lasted much longer throughout the cavalry than you might expect. Because the 1st Maine (and other units I'm interested in) frequently carried "wristbreakers," I got one of those. There isn't much choice for that model. I got a Legendary Arms one and had Tom Nardi at Sword Restoration Services put a correct grip on it and remove the INDIA from the blade. He thought the blade and hilt were pretty well done. During the preservation march and skirmish at Unison, Virginia, last weekend I had a chance to put it to real use in a couple of dust-ups with the Valley Light Horse. Those fellows are experienced swordsmen, as my blade now shows. I found the 1840 grip a little awkward as it is smaller around and more tapered than the 1860 grip. However, the heft of the blade is a benefit.

Anyway, I hope this helps, and that any of you serious federal cavalrymen will come ride with us in Virginia someday.

Andrew German

Andrew, That sounds like an excellent source and I would be extremely grateful!! I wrote the National Archives this afternoon but I'm not sure what or when I'll hear back. And you hit it on the head, I am indeed searching to confirm which saber was in greater use and at what points during the war with Company's A and E of the 2nd US. I had read that they were primarily issued the M1860 throughout the war, but wanted to verify it through official records if possible before making my final choice.

Interestingly, I considered doing what you did and going with a Legendary Arms saber and then getting the Tom Nardi upgrade, but then I found out he can put together complete sabers. I have a very cheap 1860 now that wouldn't be worth considering for the upgrade. I'm also looking into getting one from US Sword & Uniform. I'll end up comparing all the options after I can gather the info.

It would indeed be a thrill to come out and ride in your neck of the woods. Back this past August I had been invited to join with the 1st Maine this past weekend in Virginia, but unfortunately I already had plans for the weekend. I am really hoping things will work out at some point for next season though.

Again, Thanks Andrew!!!
Cheers,
Dave

[Andrew German]

Hello Dave,

I had a chance to scan through the ordnance microfilm today. Here's a quick report:

Co. A
Dec. 1862
87 Sharps
9 Colt .44s
10 model 1860 light sabres
95 sabre knots, saddles, links, lariats, picket pins, etc.
93 pr. spurs

March 1863
71 Sharps
83 Colt .44
69 light sabres

June 1863
62 Sharps
77 Colt .44s.
63 light sabres

September 1863, no listing
December 1863, no listing

March 1864
36 Sharps
49 Colt .44s
46 light sabres, with knots
44 saddles

June 1864
17 Sharps
19 Colt .44s
19 light sabres

September 1864
6 Sharps
7 Colt .44s
7 light sabres
5 saddles

Co. E
December 1862
34 unspecified rifles
41 unspecified revolvers
39 light sabres
39 saddles

March 1863
47 Sharps
3 Smiths
77 Colt .44s
62 light sabres

June 1863
27 Sharps
42 Colt .44s
27 light sabres

September 1863
14 Sharps
54 Colt .44s
31 light sabres

December 1863
13 Sharps
41 Colt .44s
17 light sabres

March 1864
6 Sharps
31 Colt .44s
11 light sabres
25 saddles

June 1864
11 Sharps
21 Colt .44s
13 light sabres
20 saddles

September 1864, no listing

So you can see that the model 1860 light sabre is your only choice, as well as a Colt .44 and a Sharps carbine, although many troopers did not have all three weapons. Hope this helps.

Andrew German

[DaveGink]

Hello Dave,

I had a chance to scan through the ordnance microfilm today. Here's a quick report:

Co. A
Dec. 1862
87 Sharps
9 Colt .44s
10 model 1860 light sabres
95 sabre knots, saddles, links, lariats, picket pins, etc.
93 pr. spurs

March 1863
71 Sharps
83 Colt .44
69 light sabres

June 1863
62 Sharps
77 Colt .44s.
63 light sabres

September 1863, no listing
December 1863, no listing

March 1864
36 Sharps
49 Colt .44s
46 light sabres, with knots
44 saddles

June 1864
17 Sharps
19 Colt .44s
19 light sabres

September 1864
6 Sharps
7 Colt .44s
7 light sabres
5 saddles

Co. E
December 1862
34 unspecified rifles
41 unspecified revolvers
39 light sabres
39 saddles

March 1863
47 Sharps
3 Smiths
77 Colt .44s
62 light sabres

June 1863
27 Sharps
42 Colt .44s
27 light sabres

September 1863
14 Sharps
54 Colt .44s
31 light sabres

December 1863
13 Sharps
41 Colt .44s
17 light sabres

March 1864
6 Sharps
31 Colt .44s
11 light sabres
25 saddles

June 1864
11 Sharps
21 Colt .44s
13 light sabres
20 saddles

September 1864, no listing

So you can see that the model 1860 light sabre is your only choice, as well as a Colt .44 and a Sharps carbine, although many troopers did not have all three weapons. Hope this helps.

Andrew German

Andrew, Thanks!!!! That is fantastic information and just what I was looking for!! I really appreciate you taking the time to search that information out for me. I will share this with the rest of my group. And fortunately that is exactly what I carry.

Cheers,
Dave

[Andrew German]

Greetings,

Someone took offense at my use of the term "Model 1860" to qualify the light sabre designation in the ordnance reports. If I implied that I was quoting directly from the records I'm sorry; I was abstracting and interpreting in the context of the discussion. The sabre designations on the ordnance forms are "heavy" and "light."

For those of you who want to do your own research in cavalry ordnance reports, the sources can be ordered from the National Archives as 1281, rolls 2 and 3.

Andrew German

[neocelt]

Just to set the record straight: When I read Andrew German's laundry list of weaponry purportedly being cited directly from NARS microfilm and saw a reference to "model 1860 light sabres," I PMed him to see if that was indeed the terminology used in the original document. If so, this would have constituted the first such reference to that nomenclature I have seen in over 30 years of cavalry-related research (but there's a first time for everything, so...). It wasn't a challenge--merely an honest question. Andrew responded that he had in fact taken the liberty of adding the "model 1860" to the reference. No worries. I did indeed suggest that for the enlightenment of all concerned he should post a clarification. When no such post was forthcoming, I nudged him privately again...

I wasn't "offended" by the misstep, but I certainly do feel that we must guard against this kind of inadvertant reinforcement of "reenactor mythology"--particularly in a forum that prides itself in more accurate, informed and documented discourse.

And by the way, Mr. German's closing comment: "So you can see that the model 1860 light sabre is your only choice, as well as a Colt .44 and a Sharps carbine, although many troopers did not have all three weapons" is also misleading. If the document in question was a REQUISITION for the weapons necessary to complete the arming deficiencies of the organizations in question, the weapons requested may or may not have been supplied (Andrew doesn't make this clear); further, this tells us NOTHING about the armament of the remaider of the the rank & file in the respective organizations at the specific dates cited. If he is in possession of additional evidence that would shed more light on this, then bring it on! But it would take more documentation than that cited to conclude: "that the model 1860 light sabre is your only choice, as well as a Colt .44 and a Sharps carbine." In all honesty, I'm not trying to start an argument (in fact, I have the greatest respect for Andrew's continuing research in primary records), but I feel we should be exceedingly vigilant not to distort the historical record in our effort to inform and educate.

Respectfully submitted,

[whitewashedreb]

They were using Enfields when they came out West in 1866. Those show up on ordnance returns from Posts out here in the west. That is quite surprising for a Regular Cavalry unit in my opinion.
They swapped them out for the 11th Ohio's Spencers as they came across the plains.
Martin