Farbs?

[Ken]

Came across these two fellas and couldn't resist. Would these guys get some stares today if they showed up at an event? The classic baseball cap folded brim and the oh so long canteed strap. Enjoy.

:D

[Wounded_Zouave]

I love it when the "forage-cap-brim-has-to-be-perfectly-straight" dogma is challenged by photographic evidence. The "canteen-has-to-almost-be-in-your-armpit" is another doctrine that has long deserved some iconoclastic thrashing. :wink_smil

[paulcalloway]

The terms "always" and "never" are dangerous ground when discussing material culture. Lets not get too carried away though, these examples don't rise to the level of leopard skin pants.

Nice photos.

[Charles Heath]

Ken,

You can do better than both of those images, if you try. The first fellow barely has a rain wave in the bill of his cap. A good baseball cap curve has a pronounced upside down "U" shape to it -- almost coming out to a point. Don't see many of those in period images, but....

Now, take a real good look at that strap on canteen boy. See two little...yeah, those things. Guess what they are! Of course they didn't do that back then. That's a keeper for the files, for sure.

Find a few images where the canteen is down about knee cap level and we'll talk. ;)

Speaking of images, does that cap in the first one happen to be a private purchase model with a painted pasteboard bound brim?

[mtvernon]

The terms "always" and "never" are dangerous ground when discussing material culture. Lets not get too carried away though, these examples don't rise to the level of leopard skin pants.

Nice photos.

I'm still looking for evidence of the lost jaguar-skull headdress-wearing regiment. I'm pretty sure they were from Ohio but I've sort of hit a brick wall as far as photographic proof. I'm told they wore their canteens just like the above example.

[burt60]

Look how fat the guy on the left is and hat brass too! Definatly Mainstream

[HOG.EYE.MAN]

"Came across these two fellas and couldn't resist. Would these guys get some stares today if they showed up at an event?"



I don't think so.... Just because they have slightly rounded bills? If these guys walked through a time warp, and showed up at an event, they would look better than anyone there. I would stare for that matter, not the rounded brim. I mean you can seriously tell the difference between a farby cap, an authentic cap or even a real cap for that matater. We are so used to equating rounded bills to farby forage caps, when we see a real one like that, we think it's odd........ Not me.

I would stare at the guy on left for being so fat probably.

[paulcalloway]

Now, take a real good look at that strap on canteen boy. See two little...yeah, those things. Guess what they are! Of course they didn't do that back then. That's a keeper for the files, for sure.

Not to mention we got a jack-chain there pure as the driven snow.

[Kevin O'Beirne]

I agree with Paul regarding using terms that leave no room for discussion, like "always" and "never".

I suspect it got eaten in one of the recent forum crashes, but about a year ago I posted some newspaper accounts of an 1884 GAR encampment in western New York State that listed happenings and weekend activities very similar (or worse than) what you'd expect at a really goofy "farbfest"... except this really happened and was done by the veterans themselves. Among my favorite incidents were the pre-planned "surprise" attack on the camp by some Seneca Indians from a nearby reservation (how many times have "campaigners" castigated the "Indian" at some Eastern mega-events?), and how the women of the nearby town attacked the camp on another day and stole the flag (sounds like the incident between some yahoos and the US commanding general at Cedar Creek about four or five years ago). Should this stuff be portrayed for a reenactment representing troops on campaign? I believe not, but the moral of the story is that history is full of odd things and weird but documented stories that challenge certain aspects of reenactor dogma.

[arthurlee]

Great picture. I like the fellow at the bottom wearing his cover (hat) further back on his head. I also enjoyed seeing the 4 button coats. The canteen looks pretty "mainstream" with the larger strap loops. Goes to show that the common foot soldier, both then and now, were not always ready for inspection. Thanks for the photo.
Arthur Maxwell
Shepherd Texas

[Ken Cornett]

Great discussion pic. The guy on the left appears a little thick. His sack buttons look like they might pop off. The guy on the right looks like he has hat brass on. Farbs for sure. :p

[Ken]

Ken,

I was thinking this fella was eating pretty good.

http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/8937/pic3pe2.png

[PvtShot]

It looks to me that there might be some Artillery brass on the hat of the man to the right. Is it possible that these guys were in an Arty unit? Did they march as much as an Infantry unit? That could explain the modified, extra-long canteen strap, and the portly fella.

Good conversation starter...

Cheers!
Eliot Toscano
(The Buckras)

[flattop32355]

I'm still looking for evidence of the lost jaguar-skull headdress-wearing regiment. I'm pretty sure they were from Ohio but I've sort of hit a brick wall as far as photographic proof. I'm told they wore their canteens just like the above example.

I believe you are referring to Battery L of the 123rd Ohio Light In The Loafers Medium Artillery & Deli Catering , recruited out of the Cincinnati metropolitan area. They were all members of an obscure semi-fraternal order, and incorporated their societal traditions, such as the above mentioned, into their military service.

They are probably best known for several interesting culinary firsts, among them the use of their small calibre cannon for flash-cooking small chunks of beef; the larger the powder charge that was touched off, the closer to well-done the meat. These small weapons became known ever after as "quarter pounders".

The few known photographs of this unique unit are apparently ensconced in a select few private collections, although rumor has it that they are of no particular historic value, due to the fact that the photographer who recorded them for posterity had the unusual habit of placing his thumb directly over the lens while making exposures.

[Clsinclair]

Attached is my a picture of my GG Grandfather, James Sinclair. He was about 5'8" and thick around the mid section. Notice the pull of the coat. Legs are also thick. He was stationed in Charleston with the 7th Battalion. He was shot in the thigh and both hips and survived the war with a terrible limp. He was Paroled at Greensboro.

Claude Sinclair

[Ken]

We seemed to have lost the photos?

[paulcalloway]

We seemed to have lost the photos?

Bah, repost them if you can Ken.

Server change last night must have broken these links.

[Ken]

Paul,

Will do!!

[Ken]

Here are the pictures that were lost.

http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/4730/pic2wm5.png
http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/6729/pic1ij8.png

[paulcalloway]

Attached is my a picture of my GG Grandfather, James Sinclair. He was about 5'8" and thick around the mid section. Notice the pull of the coat. Legs are also thick. He was stationed in Charleston with the 7th Battalion. He was shot in the thigh and both hips and survived the war with a terrible limp. He was Paroled at Greensboro.

Claude Sinclair

Claude -
Please repost yours as well. Sorry about the hassle, guys.

[Ken]

Ken,

You can do better than both of those images, if you try. The first fellow barely has a rain wave in the bill of his cap. A good baseball cap curve has a pronounced upside down "U" shape to it -- almost coming out to a point. Don't see many of those in period images, but....

Now, take a real good look at that strap on canteen boy. See two little...yeah, those things. Guess what they are! Of course they didn't do that back then. That's a keeper for the files, for sure.

Find a few images where the canteen is down about knee cap level and we'll talk. ;)

Speaking of images, does that cap in the first one happen to be a private purchase model with a painted pasteboard bound brim?
Charles,

You got me thinknig so I went on a search for the soldier with the canteen banging him in the knees. Well I didn't find it but I came pretty close. These are actually three soldiers who appear in the same image. They are all, how shall we say, challenged when it comes to the prescribed canteen position. The first and third soldiers come pretty darn close to meeting your challenge. That darn thing is almost at their knees! Oh, I threw in a great shot of a guys sharps rifle. Just thought it was pretty neat.:cool:
http://img369.imageshack.us/img369/1566/c3gl0.png
http://img369.imageshack.us/img369/3160/c2kw6.png
http://img369.imageshack.us/img369/9226/c1ho2.png
http://img369.imageshack.us/img369/9121/c4sa0.png

[paulcalloway]

http://img369.imageshack.us/img369/9226/c1ho2.png

Would you think cartridge box on the belt in this photo?

It occurs to me that this thread could go by another name, reminiscent of a mainstream discussion going on somewhere else - "Another Canon Accident". Spelling correct.

[Charles Heath]

Not even close. Drop those canteens about 14-18 inches, and get into that how low can you go reenactor realm. You can do it. Those pix are out there somewhere, along with a pretty good article on the subject. That article used to be linked to a forum somewhere....

[Moonshine]

Looks like that cup is attached to the canteen strap so it can bang around and make plenty of noise...FARB!!!

James Ross

[bAcK88]

http://img369.imageshack.us/img369/1566/c3gl0.png
http://img369.imageshack.us/img369/3160/c2kw6.png
http://img369.imageshack.us/img369/9226/c1ho2.png
http://img369.imageshack.us/img369/9121/c4sa0.png

First these soldiers are from an image at the LoC entitled Seven Pines, Va. Twin houses on battlefield, with 32-pdr. field howitzer in foreground, Call Number: LC-B811- 471.

These soldiers look to be members of an artillery unit that were issued "Short Roman swords". However what I find interesting in this image are the soldiers in the background.

Okay, I can't seem to get the close-ups that I have to upload here, but there are soldiers carrying "Short Roman swords" and a guy with a saber and crossed cannon on his cap in the foreground. In the background near the house, is a soldier with gaiters on and a large blanket roll, and on the right of the house, behind the head of some of the artillery guys, is a colunm of infantry marching away.

[Charles Heath]

Bill,

Check out Marker #40 in the link listed below:

http://www.co.henrico.va.us/rec/freeman_markers.htm

[roundshot]

These men in the enlarged photos are not wearing artillery short swords as suggested in an earlier post, but rather sabre bayonets for the Sharp's Rifles. And yes, they do have artillery insignia on their caps. They are most likely men of the 1st Connecticut Heavy Artillery, the flank companies of which carried Sharps. They can be seen in several other photos taken on the Peninsula around Yorktown.

[rogue]

Error in research

[bAcK88]

I looked closer and it does looks like they are wearing sword bayonets.

The cannon in the foreground looks to be a Model 1840, 8-inch siege howitzer (someone correct me if I'm wrong) and the on the LoC under Created/Published is 1862, June. If I'm right on both, then looks like these boys are from the 1st Regiment C.V. Heavy Artillery.

From "History of the First Regiment C.V. Heavy Artillery" written by Henry L. Abbot, found in Record of the Service of Connecticut Men in the Army and Navy of the United States during the War of the Rebellion. and published in 1889 by Press of the Case, Lockwood and Brainard Company in Hartford, Conn.
Page 117:

On June 20th Colonel Tyler was ordered to bring up five 4 ½ inch guns and five 30-pounder Parrotts. On June 24th they were in position near New Bridge, under Major Kellogg, served by Companies B, D, and F. On June 25th and 26th they fired effectively; and on the latter date were moved across the Chickahominy to Golding’s farm, where, reinforced by two 10-pounder Whitworths served by Company I, they were heavily engaged on June 27th. On that night they were withdrawn; and, across White Oak Swamp, joined the rest of the rest of the train under Major Hemingway, consisting of two 8-inch howitzers, two 10-pounder Whitworths, and nine other heavy guns, which had been in position near Seven Pines and in depot at Orchard Station. They united train was moved to Turkey Bend, and during the night of June 30th Companies B, D, F, I, and K placed with great difficulty five 4 ½ inch ordnance guns, five 30-pounder Parrotts, two 8-inch howitzers, and two 10-pounder Whitworths in position on Malvern Hill. These guns were gallantly and effectively served in the great battle of July 1st, although, in addition to the fire of the enemy, the men suffered from a rear fire from our gunboats, by which four men of Company F were wounded, three mortally. During the following night the train was retired to Westover Landing.

[roundshot]

Here's a view of the 1st Connecticut Heavies at Yorktown. Note the Sharps Rifles with sabre bayonets carried by this company.

[roundshot]

At least one of the men in the Seven Pines redoubt photo belongs to Seeley's "K/4th US" Artillery as can be seen by his cap ornamentation.

[maineman]

Must be a posed picture with that hat brass, had to be a streamer