Color Sgt. Chevron

[Arthur Stone]

Greetings all, I was looking to make a pair of Color Sgt. Chevrons, crossed flags. Does anyone have a pix of them or a image of someone wearing them? Any help would be great. Thanks, Art

[Will Eichler]

Art,

The color sergeant wears three stripes, just like other sergeants. There is no flag above the chevrons for the color sergeant.

Since these are just the normal stripes, if you don't want to make them, vendors such as Wambaugh, Daley and others will have them for reasonable prices. All of these folks can be found under the "approved vendors" link at the top of the pages.

Hope this helps. I'm sorry I don't have a paragraph reference handy as my US regs are at another building but there is a section on chevrons in the uniform section that I would encourage you to check out.

Good luck.

Will

[FranklinGuardsNYSM]

Art -

As Will suggested, the designated Color Sergeant isn't supposed to wear anything special. There are surviving examples of the crossed flags, but for the sake of practicality and for the dearth of period images showing them, they were likely exceedingly rare for use in the field. Besides, who other than one of those specific "carried the flag in all of our engagements" guys would really have the time or inclination to purchase and attach them?

This is the set that's in the 69th Regiment armory, which I'm sure you've seen.

[Eric Wisbith]

The image on page 282 in the Union Echoes of Glory shows the color guard of the 63rd Pa. The color sergeant is wearing only crossed flags, no other chevrons at all. Notice all the other NCO's have light chevrons. He also carries an officers' sword. The image can be tentativly dated to the summer of 1862, as the corporal second from the right is carrying a Lorenz, the 63rd's issue weapon. The others carry Springfields or Richmond rifle muskets. The 63rd replaced many of the Austrians with battlefield pickups on the Peninsula, and Alex Hays was badly wounded at 2nd Manassas. The image probably was taken at Alexandria as the III Corps was heading to reinforce Pope, as the men carry a mix of weapons and Hays is still in command of the regiment. So this image can be narrowed to after the Peninsula but before Manassas. This is about as close as an "in the field" image as you can get.

[Arthur Stone]

Marc & Will, Yes i have seen the flags in the 69th Armory, And have taken pix of them. BJ Zerkle of Texas as sent me the gold bullion to do this project. I have an extra frock that I'm going to set up for Color Sgt. I also have Seaklea Chevron's. I made a pear already but think there alittle to big. I wanted to see if i can get the right size for them. Any help would be great!
Art Ps Thanks Eric i will check it out!

[Rob Murray]

Art,
Interesting discussion. For an image of Sam Bloomer, the 1st Minnesotas' color bearer from June-Sept,1862 go to the link provided. The site is dedicated to the original 1st Minnesota Vol. Infty. Enjoy.

http://firstmn.phpwebhosting.com/SearchChoice.html

Rob Murray
www.banksgrandretreat.com

[Fenianboy]

1/SGT, Our friend Joe Bilby's "Thrre Rousing Cheers,History of the 15th NJ" shows a photo of Sgt Edwin Ulmer prior to his ghastly wounds as a Color Corporal.The chevrons utilize the star and are dated between 8/62 and 6/64 when he was promoted to SGT. Your messmate, Bud Scully 13th NJ Co.K Mess.....Malooooon's Boys

[Arthur Stone]

Sgt. Scully, Thanks for the info! I'll have to get with you though, because i don't own that book. Shame on me. Your Pard, Art:(

[JEBminnesota]

Here is the link to the picture of Sam Bloomer Color Bearer of the 1st Minnesota from June-Sept,1862.
As Rob stated you will notice his stars above his strips.

http://collections.mnhs.org/visualresources/image.cfm?imageid=167880&Page=1&Keywords=Bloomer&SearchType=Basic

[DougCooper]

Here is the link to the picture of Sam Bloomer Color Bearer of the 1st Minnesota from June-Sept,1862.
As Rob stated you will notice his stars above his strips.

http://collections.mnhs.org/visualresources/image.cfm?imageid=167880&Page=1&Keywords=Bloomer&SearchType=Basic

Joe I have a copy of this photo and the stars almost look like they are scratched on to the image vice actually on his uniform sleeves...or perhaps applied with chalk or something. Note how fuzzy they are.

[TKlas]

Hi gents,

I would generally agree with Marc that in many cases, the color sergeant did not wear anything different than most other sergeants to signify his position. However there are documented instances like the fine pic Rob and Joe have pointed out that do show this.

As with most things, research the regiment that is being portrayed and do not just wear a solid or hollow star to signify a color sergeant. Many units did not subsribe to this extra rank insignia on thier sleeve for the color sergeant. Also those regiments that did in many cases ceased wearing this extra insignia as the war progressed and long campaigns would be another red flag for ommitting the extra rank insignia.

Another source of some fine photos of color sergeants wearing either a solid or hollow star above the typical sergeants cheveron can be found in Miliatry Images January/February 2001 edition.

Best Regards,

[Pvt_6thnhvi]

Art, Just to throw in my 2 cents. We have an image of one of the color Sgt's in the 6th NH and he dons two white stars above the typical Sgt chevron. They appear to be white. I will see if I can get a scan for you to look at.

We have a member that has long carried the colors and we choose to honor him this year with the image as well as the two stars for his uniform. Pretty cool stuff. Good thread!

YOS
R.C.Tarbox

[Arthur Stone]

Gent's, I know it wasn't the norm for the Color guard Sgt. to be wearing the star or crossed flags. Those men usully didn't last very long, just as the " Barn door gunner" didn't. Sticking out like a sore thumb.
But I've seen a few chezzzzzzy ones on the field made by an embroidery machine and I thought I'd make a pair that looked right. I think it would make for a good impression. I could put up a pretty good fight for the colors!
Art

[Rob Murray]

Doug,
I have never seen the original image. I have always thought, along with other members of the 1st Minn. that the stars were white flannel, which could explain the fuzziness. I will be going to the M.H.S. to do some research on the 2nd Minn. and the battle of Mill Springs, when there I will see if I can get a gander at the original.

Tom,
I agree with you about researching the individual unit you plan on portraying. As stated in the above posts, there was nothing in the Regs. about this, though I find it interesting more than one unit used a downward pointing star. Could this be a Volunteer vs. Regular issue? Could it be "customs of service"? The first 3 Cols. of the 1st Minn. were all Old Army, West Point grads and Mexican War vets, so I don't think they would just pull something like this out of their proverbial hats.

Rob Murray
www.banksgrandretreat.com

[JEBminnesota]

Joe I have a copy of this photo and the stars almost look like they are scratched on to the image vice actually on his uniform sleeves...or perhaps applied with chalk or something. Note how fuzzy they are.


That is an interesting observation.
These photos are sometimes hard to make out because of the clarity and the fact that they are old doesn’t help much either.
If they only had digital cameras.:rolleyes:

We have to remember that the color sergeant was a top honor to receive in the regiment since he was selected by the colonel. It seems that some of these men wanted stand out from the other sergeants in the regiment with adding a star or cross flags above their chevrons.

Good discussion,

[Arthur Stone]

Gents, I'm allmost done with one set of flags. When I complete it I will post a pix. Also, in Echoes of Glory there are twelve images of Color Gaurds. Two of them are wearing crossed flags above there chevrons. Persentage wise i think they were more common then most people think.
Art

[Bummer]

For what it's worth I once owned a pair; silk stripes with the little crossed flags. They belonged to the color sergt. of the 14th Conn. Also there is a letter with them wherein he tells of receiving them--he mentions the 'little crossed flags' in the letter and says they look pretty bright or something to that effect, and says "if they are for the color sergt. then I will go ahead and put them on". The letter makes one think that they were a store-bought thing that friends or relatives sent.
The pair and the letter currently reside in the SUV museum in Rockville Conn.
I also still have a single. Differently made, not quite as fancy, but the same design.

[Arthur Stone]

Gents, This is what I have come up with. I still have to make one more but the next should be a little easyer, I hope! I would love to see a image of the real thing though. So do they look authentic? They should fit nicely between the Chevron's
Thanks
Art

[BobSullivanPress]

Those guys with the stars above the chevrons. How well did this sit with Ordnance sergeants (who wore the stars as part of their rank)? I know Ordnance was crimson, and the stars were outline rather than filled, but hey, stars are stars.

[pvtbordonaro]

Art,
The color sergeant's crossed-flag insignia looks outstanding! As far as the size goes, if they fit in between the sergeant chevrons they should be the correct size, at least going by the photo of the insignias in "Echoes of Glory". Why don't you post a picture of them once you have them sewn on your dress coat?
-Joe Bordonaro

[Arthur Stone]

Joe, Thank you for the compliment! I think they really dress up the frock coat. So here they are again. I think I got it right.
Art

[Arthur Stone]

Gents,
Thought I'd post a pix of another set of Color SGT. Chevrons that I found. Hope you like them.
Art

[Fenianboy]

Art, Will you be making these as well? Bud Scully 13th NJ and 69th NY:)

[Arthur Stone]

Bud, There in the works right now!
Art