Great early war View

[roundshot]

From the LOC catalog, this enlargement provides a candid view of Federal Zouaves in the field, in this case men of the 96th Pennsylvania around Centreville, VA. Merry Christmas.

[Dale Beasley]

Great picture, do they all have same rifle? Looks like a Springfiled...'61?

[michaelgodwin]

look more like the lorenz to me.

[PFLINT]

I'd agree that the men on the right look to be carrying lorenz's. To me, it looks like the man on the far left in the frock coat is carrying a musket, maybe 1842.
Patrick Flint

[Chris Suppelsa]

Wow, where did you find such an amazing image? I noticed the one guy with a large haversack, and the men are also being allowed to wear accoutrements with the jacked unbuttoned, even in the presence of an officer.

[DougCooper]

These men are of the 95th PVI (vice 96th) Gosline's Zouaves. They appear to be wearing standard forage caps instead of the fancy kepi's that were issued at one time or another. Bob what is the date on this photo? A fantastic image to be sure. Thanks!!

[FranklinGuardsNYSM]

This image, and others from the series, are dated March, 1862.

Leather gaiters abound, including one pair that isn't being worn.

[Prodical Reb]

Also did you notice that the bayonets don't fit into the scabboards all the way for the 2 men carrying Lorenzes. The scabboards appear to be early war 2 rivet scabboards.

Were Lorenz bayonets wider than Springfield or Enfield bayonets? If so, that would explain why the bayonets don't go all the way down into the scabboard.

[jandksuttorp]

Hey Comrads,
Couple of things that I find interesting are: The guy sitting on the log looks to have something stuck in his chin strap of his forage cap, those haversacks seem huge and I like the guy munching on a piece of hard tack. I have an original Lorenz bayonet that fits (or doesn't fit) the same way in my 2 rivit springfield scabbard. Awsome photo, thanks.

John Eric Suttorp

[roundshot]

Doug's right. It is the 95th PA. I know better. Not thinking.

While we're at it, here's another around the same time of the 9th NYSM. Note the distinctive 9 button NY jackets with red trim and scalloped cuffs. Also the box knapsack with large numeral "9" painted on back. A dandy look at a dandy unit.

[Bob Herr]

I like they way the guy eating the piece of hardtack and the one behind him have their kepi bills turned up. I don't see that in the second picture and don't recall seeing it before. Wonder if they did it just for this pic or if it was common for them? Great pics!!! - Bob Herr

[Chris Suppelsa]

I also like how the one guy on the left in the first image has a rolled up overcoat on his knapsack.

[BarryDusel]

Those Lorenz bayonets don't go well with standard scabbards for 2 reasons.
First they are a bit longer then US or Enfield bayonets. Second, in body they are shaped considerably different. Anyways, this is a really great study of the 95th PVI.
Thanks for posting. Now if we could only find a body of reenactors who want to do Goslines correctly and are willing to ante up to do so!

[bAcK88]

While we're at it, here's another around the same time of the 9th NYSM. Note the distinctive 9 button NY jackets with red trim and scalloped cuffs. Also the box knapsack with large numeral "9" painted on back. A dandy look at a dandy unit.

Sweet! This is one of my favorite images from the LoC!

There are a couple of things that have been bugging me for a while now with this photo though. First, I don’t think these boys are from the 9th New York. If the date of this image is true, March 1862, then the 9th was down in North Carolina with Burnside until July when they were shipped up to Virginia. If the date is incorrect, I still have doubts that this is still the 9th NY. This image was taken at Manassas Station and according to the 9th’s service record they were never at Manassas although they were at a Brooks’ Station. I can’t find where exactly Brooks’ Station is but it’s somewhere between Fredericksburg and Washington City.
There were two 9th infantry regiments that were at or near Manassas Station, the 9th Massachusetts and the 9th Pennsylvania Reserves both of which were at Second Manassas.

The second thing that has been bugging me are the jackets that the men are wearing in the background, which kind of look like Confederate jackets produced in Richmond. I highly doubt that these jackets are NYS jackets because according to NY regulations:

1st. Of a Jacket of dark blue army cloth, cut to flow from the waist and to fall about four inches below the belt. The coat is to be buttoned with eight buttons from the throat to the waist. The collar is to be a low standing collar. The buttons are to be those of the State Militia. Four sizes of Jackets will be required.

These jackets have a 9 button front instead of an 8 button one and there are three cuff buttons which aren’t mentioned at all. I’m beginning to think that these COULD be either a State jacket of some sort of private purchase jacket, I honestly have no clue.

This image really is cool though. There’s the dark blue trousers being worn by enlisted men, a guy folding the collar of his frock under so it looks like there’s not collar, a soldier wearing a frock over his blouse, and a guy wearing what looks like a field altered greatcoat (an added button and the removal of the cape). I would have posted these but it looks like I can’t post images on here which sucks, but oh well.

[roundshot]

First, the 9th New York Volunteers (Hawkin's Zouaves) and the 9th New York State Militia are not the same unit. These are indeed the 9th NYSM (also known as the 83rd Regiment of Volunteers). Secondly, the 9th NYSM wore a distinctive variation of the standard NY shell jacket which had 9 buttons, was piped in red, and had red scalloped plastrons on the cuffs. They also wore a dark blue cap with gilt braid and a dark blue overcoat with red cuff tab and cape lining. Their uniform was quite distinctive and attractive and there are many extant photos of them wearing it. This one just happens to show them in the field. I'll see if I can rustle up a studio portrait of one of them.

[roundshot]

Here's a portrait of one of the 9th NYSM. An excellent article and uniform description by Mike McAfee can be found in Military Images, Vol. XII, No. 5.
Again, they should not be confused with Hawkin's zou-zous. Appreciate your comments and interest, though.

[bAcK88]

Here's a portrait of one of the 9th NYSM. An excellent article and uniform description by Mike McAfee can be found in Military Images, Vol. XII, No. 5.
Again, they should not be confused with Hawkin's zou-zous. Appreciate your comments and interest, though.

Bob,

Thank you for the info! The title for the image is Manassas, Va. Provost guard of the 9th New York Infantry and I assumed it meant the 9th New York Infantry Regiment (Hawkin's Zouaves). Those jackets are just too cool and I couldn't find out what type they were until today. This section on the AC is awesome!

Thanks again,
Bill

[rogue]

Attached are several views of a "standard" Enfield bayonet (though perhaps plated for post-war G.A.R. use) and an Austrian Lorenz bayonet. The Lorenz would indeed have trouble fitting into a scabbard designed for the Springfield or Enfield. The Lorenz is 18 1/2 inches long and one inch wide at the base while the Enfield is 17 1/2 inches long and a tad under 3/4 inches wide at the base. The Lorenz has an "X" configuration in cross-section while the Springfield and Enfield are triangular. Note also the Lorenz front sight path is on a diagonal rather than the angular path to be followed by the front sight of the Springfield/Enfield.
The Lorenz was distinctive in weight, lighter, and length, shorter, and equally loved and hated by those who carried them.
Steve Sullivan
46th Illinois
CWPT
Co. Mil. Hist.
...and still older than both Scott Cross and Weed!

[johnf1862]

From the LOC catalog, this enlargement provides a candid view of Federal Zouaves in the field, in this case men of the 96th Pennsylvania around Centreville, VA. Merry Christmas.

Excellent image, great upturned brims. Note the rifle on the guy left-center {with overcoat on/strange hat brass} it almost looks like there is a wooden tompion in the end of the barrel.

[John Legg]

John,


That is a Tompion, great find!


Cheers :)

[maineman]

What about all that farby hat brass?

[Fenianboy]

I'm wondering if the fellow on the left in full kit with the 42 is from the same unit? Notice he is wearing a frock, lighter color pants,a different weapon and looks ready to march while the "Zoos" seem to in a lesser state of preparation? Bud Scully 13th NJ and 69th NY

[roundman]

Keep clicking on the picture. It will get big enough to clearly identify the rifles as the Austrian Lorenz. The soldier with the gun butt on the log is a dead giveway, cheek peice on stock! Also the nosecap on another is a dead giveway!
Robert Myers

[Matt_E_Wright]

Also note that the Soldier on the far left has his knapsack straps (w/ the J hooks) hooked on his waistbelt instead of crossed over the chest, kind of like what was intended with the M1855 rifleman's belt.

Matt Wright

[rebinnj]

I like they way the guy eating the piece of hardtack and the one behind him have their kepi bills turned up. I don't see that in the second picture and don't recall seeing it before. Wonder if they did it just for this pic or if it was common for them? Great pics!!! - Bob Herr

Looks like with the kepi bill up, this prevents the shadow of the bill obscuring the face when the picture is taken.

[bushy chops]

Now if we could only find a body of reenactors who want to do Goslines correctly and are willing to ante up to do so!


These guys are giving it a shot: www.95thpa.com. No Lorenzesin this group, but after doing a study, only the Flanker companies were issued the Austrain Lorenz, and those too were replaced in august of '62.

[Duff]

They're not a bad unit. Plus they put on an awsome event called Hopes Campaign.