PDA

View Full Version : Arms in the Hornets Nest



Johan Steele
01-17-2007, 10:01 AM
I have been doing some looking at the men who held the Hornets Nest at Shiloh and in my research have hit upon a bit of a wall. While I have been able to verify info for 1863 I have not been able to find concrete data as to the arms carried by the 8th, 12th or 14th IA. All three were using P53 Enfields by the time of Vicksburg but that does me no use for Shiloh. By looking at other states troops I have been able to identify most of the arms used by US troops.

I would greatly appreciate any info anyone might have as to the arms carried by the 8th, 12th or 14th IA VI at the time of Shiloh.

Thank You

2nd IA (490 men) M1841, M1855, M1861 May still have had some M1842s Lt Col Baker

7th IA (383 men) M1842, M1861, M1822, M1817 conversions Lt Col Parrot

12th IA (489 men) Col Tuttle Unknown arms

14th IA (442 men) Col JJ Woods Unknown arms

8th IA (689 men) Col J L Geddes Unknown arms

1st MN Lt Arty 6 Guns 2 x 12 LB Howitzers, 4 x 3 Rifles, (126 men)

Union Forces at Shiloh were carrying: M1817 (both Flint & Percussion conversions) M1816 & M1822 (both flint & percussion conversions) M1842, M1842 Rifled, M1855 & some M1861s, P53 Enfield (largely spoils from Ft Donelson & Ft Henry), P56 Enfield Rifle, Lorenz (various models), Colt Revolving Rifle.

At Shiloh 66% of Union men carried imported arms. Firearms from Europe

Hairy Nation Boys
01-17-2007, 10:59 AM
The 12th Iowa was one of the best armed regiments from Iowa. They had Enfields.

Harrison Holloway
Hairy Nation Boys
ONV

Johan Steele
01-17-2007, 03:31 PM
Holler; do you know if either the 8th or 14th were also sporting new Enfields by that point?

roundshot
01-17-2007, 05:37 PM
According to Todd, the 8th initially received "Belgian Muskets." This link says they were armed with Springfields and Enfields at Shiloh: http://iagenweb.org/civilwar/other/gazette/gazette-1862-4b.htm

Can't help with initial issue for the 14th but by '63 they had Springfields.

Johan Steele
01-17-2007, 06:27 PM
According to Todd, the 8th initially received "Belgian Muskets." This link says they were armed with Springfields and Enfields at Shiloh: http://iagenweb.org/civilwar/other/gazette/gazette-1862-4b.htm

Can't help with initial issue for the 14th but by '63 they had Springfields.

Thank You much, looks like all I need now is good data for the 14th.

K. Krewer
01-18-2007, 12:27 PM
And I actually have a source for 12th Iowa -- was just reading in Clark & Bowen's University Recruits that the 12th was initially issued old flintlocks but got Enfields by the time they left Benton Barracks in St. Louis.

K. Krewer

Hairy Nation Boys
01-19-2007, 08:49 AM
I have read that book and am a friend of Roger Bowens. The first group I was with we portrayed the 12th Iowa Co.C. Co.C were university students at Upper Iowa University. I have held George Comstocks Enfield, seen most of Philo Woods gear, gone to Upper Iowa to see the field desk the company had and discovered ALL of its contents.

Most Iowa regiments were given inferior weapons. The 12th had some more political pull than other units. Most early Iowa regiments had conversion weapons that were rusted junk.

Roger found a trunk full of this stuff while a professor at Upper Iowa. The university did not want any of it and told him he could have it. I could list all that he got but it would be a very long list.

His book is one of the best books ever written on a single regiment/company. Most have never even heard of it.

Harrison Holloway
Hairy Nation Boys
ONV

BumpusTN
01-19-2007, 02:30 PM
As a boy, I spent a lot of time at Shiloh. On an outing about 25 years ago, I was in the woods in the Hornest Nest area before Duncan Field, between the main road and the Munch's Battery Monument. While walking through the small revine behind the Sunken Road, I found an un-fired .69 ball. Logic would have that this was dropped, by whatever outfit was in this area at the time, which would have been one of the Iowa units. Would anyone else be familiar with any archeaological surveys done in the Hornets Nest? If what I found as a child is common for this sector of the battlefield, it would tend to make you think that Smoothbore .69's were in use.

Just a thought,

Scott Bumpus

Hairy Nation Boys
01-19-2007, 04:26 PM
.69 were used by the Iowans. 7th Iowa especially. They could have been dropped by the Confedrates too. Since they went through that area once the sunken road fell.

Johan Steele
01-19-2007, 07:57 PM
As a boy, I spent a lot of time at Shiloh. On an outing about 25 years ago, I was in the woods in the Hornest Nest area before Duncan Field, between the main road and the Munch's Battery Monument. While walking through the small revine behind the Sunken Road, I found an un-fired .69 ball. Logic would have that this was dropped, by whatever outfit was in this area at the time, which would have been one of the Iowa units. Would anyone else be familiar with any archeaological surveys done in the Hornets Nest? If what I found as a child is common for this sector of the battlefield, it would tend to make you think that Smoothbore .69's were in use.

Just a thought,

Scott Bumpus


The men in the thick of it in the Hornets Nest were carrying .54, .577, .58, .69 & .71... pretty much every cal available for a long arm was in use.

Johan Steele
01-19-2007, 08:05 PM
THe 8th was hauling around various models of Austrians... looks like .71 which probably would have been their M1842 (though it might have been something far more ancient) and the M1854 Lorenz we all know.

K. Krewer
01-19-2007, 09:43 PM
I have read that book and am a friend of Roger Bowens. The first group I was with we portrayed the 12th Iowa Co.C. Co.C were university students at Upper Iowa University. I have held George Comstocks Enfield, seen most of Philo Woods gear, gone to Upper Iowa to see the field desk the company had and discovered ALL of its contents.

Most Iowa regiments were given inferior weapons. The 12th had some more political pull than other units. Most early Iowa regiments had conversion weapons that were rusted junk.



Believe it or not, I WENT to Upper Iowa, Dr. Clark was my political science professor and advisor and Roger Bowen was the registrar at that time (1972-75).

I'm doing a presentation on Iowa in the Civil War at the Ladies and Gentlemen of the 1860's conference and trying to do some quick research on what arms and uniforms the Iowa troops had -- I'd be interested in getting whatever facts you have and sources, if you'd be so kind as to contact me off-site at natekakar@aol.com.

Thanks,

K. Krewer

Hairy Nation Boys
01-20-2007, 07:28 AM
I talked with a friend of mine who had done a lot of research on the 7th Iowa and he said the flank companies had 55's.

Harrison Holloway
Hairy Nation Boys
ONV

Chihuahua
01-20-2007, 10:33 AM
Pards,
I've been looking through my references for info on the arms used at the Sunken Road, and I've found very little.
Holler is right on about the 12th having fine Enfields. After that fact, most is sketchy.
It seems I've read that the 2nd was first issued some sort of Prussian .72 calibre, but I can't find my source - -- so take that with a grain of salt. By '63 the 2nd had Springfield rifled muskets. Company G of the 2nd was entirely Bloomfield boys, so it's possible I heard this info locally. I'll keep searching.
According to Byers's Iowa in War Times, the 7th "received their arms at St. Louis, the flank companies A & B getting the Springfield rifle with tape self primers, and the other eight companies received the improved buck and ball Springfield musket."
Early Hawkeye volunteer units were issued a puzzling array of weaponry. That's about all that is truly clear.
Mark Warren
Bloomfield, Iowa
Hairy Nation

Carroll Rasch
08-14-2007, 11:00 PM
I am married to a descendant of Hans Hanson of Company G of the Iowa 12 Volunteer Regiment. He came home from the war carrying a 1855 Colt revolving rifle .56 caliber #7462 marked with a "67" in two places on the weapon indicating that it had originally been issued to the Illinois 67th Regiment which was organized in the first call up in the Civil War and who were to serve for three months. When they mustered out, their Colts may have gone to Iowa or it might have been a battle field pick up after Shiloh or have been reissued to the the released members of the 12th Iowa after October 26th when they were "paroled" by the Confederates after having been captured at Shiloh. That weapon has been in the family since Hanson was discharged on November 13, 1864 in Nashville according to the papers on the wall of my den along with the Colt rifle. There are dozens of ways that this weapon could have come into his possession. It is a military weapon based on 6 markings. I am suggesting that some surviving members of the original 12th Iowa Volunteers were issued such a weapon during their long march through the war. I am guessing that they certainly were relieved of their original weapons after they were overrun.