"Split" canteen slings???

[Moonshine]

How common were "split" canteen slings? Were they Federal in manufacture of Confed.? Were they a mid-later war item?

I recently saw a picture of a dead Confed (you know the one - Petersburg w/Fed cartridge box) and he exhibits one of these on his Fed canteen.

This was probably covered before in the old forum, but since I didn't have a Fed smoothside canteen at the time I didn't care! I got the canteen to hold the moonshine... now I need a sling.

Any enlightenment is helpful!

Jim "I'll drink to that" Ross

[RyanBWeddle]

I don't think that is a canteen sling. If you look at the canteen, which is his (the strap wraps around his arm), it is a corrugated bullseye federal pattern with a leather strap.

The 'spilt' sling looks like a plainwoven webbing with a machine sewn line, you can see it is knotted and goes around his left side. It may be another canteen sling, a haversack strap, or a tumpline/hobo roll strap...

Since we can't see the other side to see what this is attached to, who can say, but my guess is that it isn't a canteen sling.

If you closer at that image, he is wearing some sort of vest with a taped edge.... Weird.

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[LocalOaf]

I think he may be referring to a Confederate soldier killed at Spotsylvania- the photographer was closer to the subjects head when he took the photo. The dead man is still wearing his accoutrements, and his canteen is twisted around to his side so that you can see the sling as it is run through the bottom bracket. If I remember correctly, his canteen is an uncovered Federal corrugated model, with what looks like a leather sling.

I don't know much about splitting slings at the place of manufacture, but the NC Museum of History has a canteen (Federal corrugated) that belonged to Sgt. Alfred May of the 61st NC. He had taken a rifle sling, made slits in it so that the bottom of the canteen had part of the sling on both sides, and used it through the end of the war.

Regards,

Dan Brennan

[LocalOaf]

Oops!!!!

When I first read Jim's post, I misread "Petersburg" for "Fredricksburg"!!! I need to wear my glasses more often!

I was talking about a completely different photo than Jim was, and for that, I apologize for any confusion. Both photos do illustrate what Jim was asking about, however.

Regards,

Dan Brennan

[ThehosGendar]

It's the image "Body of another Confederate soldier near Mrs. Alsop's house," taken by O'Sullivan at Spotsylvania.

http://www.3nj.org/spotsdead.jpg

The canteen strap is leather, and in two pieces. The main strap which goes over the shoulder is connected to the lower portion which splits by a brass rivet. Don Smith of the Trans-Mississippi Depot carried these, but I don't have one of his old catalogues handy so I don't know what he labeled them as.

Also note the shoulder strap scalloping of the Federal knapsack, and it appears that the soldier is wearing a uniform made of kersey.

http://www.3nj.org/canteenslipstrap.jpg

Attached to his jacket are Federal eagle buttons (a shield or 'I' front isn't discernable), and, underneath, he is wearing a lighter colored standing collar vest with dome buttons.

http://www.3nj.org/standcollarbutton.jpg

http://www.3nj.org/vest.jpg

Special thanks to Marc. A. Hermann for several mental jump-starts while writing this.

[markj]

Master Jason,

I'm more intrigued by what is UNDERNEATH that guy's canteen. It's a light-colored object that seems to have a woven,"ridged" look. Possibly a blanket or even a straw hat?

I'd also be interested in a closeup of the man's hat. It obviously has a hatcord on it but I've never been able to get a good look at it.

Thanks,

Mark Jaeger

[RyanBWeddle]

I thought he was referring to the Fort Mahone image:

http://memory.loc.gov/service/pnp/cwpb/02500/02551v.jpg

Check that out, that's the one with the 'split' strap and also the weird wild tape edged vest!

[Iron Scout]

Jim,

The SC Confederate Relic Room and Museum has in its collection an interesting Federal corregated canteen that was used by Pvt. Wm Craddock, 1st SCVI/McGowan's. The canteen has the split leather strap around the main body but the majority of the strap is coarse, plain woven cotton. There once was a billet for adjustment although the iron wire buckle and keeper are still present. The strap puzzled me for some time as to whether it was original to the canteen or something Craddock or someone else put on it. On the leather body, there are two holes punched on each side and then the leather was cut between them. Overall the product is rather crude which makes me lean toward CS application. If you email me off line I will try to get you some pictures sometime soon. I'm leaving out of town tomorrow so I may have to respond Monday. A very interesting article!

Regards,

Neill Rose
PLHA
ironscout@charter.net

[Moonshine]

Hey guys,

Thanks for the photos! I was originally asking for the Spotsylvania one but realized the Petersburg guy had a sling similar too. Oh well!

Was this a possible late war item then?

Jim Ross

[ThehosGendar]

I don't think that the canteen strap in the T.C. Roche Fort Mahone image (pictured below) has a split strap.

http://www.3nj.org/othercanteen.jpg

http://www.3nj.org/canteenslipstrap.jpg

As you can see in the split strap, the division begins just about a quarter of an inch below the first keeper on the canteen. In the canteen in the Fort Mahone image, there is a twist in the strap as soon as the strap exits the keeper, where the rear portion of the split strap would be see, it isn't.
One interesting thing about the Roche canteen is what may be a "T" and, certainly an "R" on the spout.

Mark,

Here's a close-up of the hat for you:

http://www.3nj.org/hat.jpg

And the woven thing... perhaps a scarf? It has some fringe at the end, but it does look rather stiff.

http://www.3nj.org/woven.jpg

[dreierjs]

"One interesting thing about the Roche canteen is what may be a "T" and, certainly an "R" on the spout." --Jason R. Wickersty

I admit, that my untrained eyes do not see the T; however, the R looks very similiar to pictures of original contractor stamped spouts that Mr. Houde has posted on his website. http://www.orchardhillsutlery.com/

Click on:
"HADDEN, PORTER & BOOTH" BULLSEYE CANTEENS are here!

I know there were more canteen contractors than are shown, but for comparisons sake, check out the "R.H. GRATZ & CO." Philadelphia Depot picture, as well as the middle HADDEN, PORTER & BOOTH" Philadelphia Depot pic.

Great job on the pictures, Mr. Wickersty!

[Iron Scout]

Gents,

Here are some of the scans of the Craddock canteen. Some are better than others but I think it will at least illustrate this one article. The canteen is marked with the "Gratz, Phil" contractor's stamp. Hope everyone enjoys.

Regards,

Neill Rose
PLHA

[Yellowhammer]

Guys,

Check out my article on Federal canteens in CS service:
http://www.southernguard.org/education/canteens.html

In my photo survey, many of which are included in the article, I noted a preponderence of uncovered Federal canteens on leather slings.

I don't know if the Confederate QM was issuing Fed canteens salvaged off the battlefield with some kind a CS made sling or if it was simply a practice of troops in the field but one thing is sure, all evidence points to it being very common in the ANV.

[markj]

Greetings,

Tom Belton, of the NC Museum of History, just sent me a note and said they also have a split canteen sling in their collection as well. Maybe someone on the forum has already seen it.

Regards,

Mark Jaeger

[LocalOaf]

Greetings,

Tom Belton, of the NC Museum of History, just sent me a note and said they also have a split canteen sling in their collection as well. Maybe someone on the forum has already seen it.

Regards,

Mark Jaeger

That would be the Alfred May canteen, which I mentioned previously in this string.

Regards,

Dan Brennan

[Jimmayo]

John: I believe the canteen in Fig 5 may be of confederate manufacture. Notice how the seams are fitted, the odd size sling keepers and the long spout. Doesn't seem to fit any US ones I have seen.

[Moonshine]

Mr. Stillwagon,

It was your article in fact that lead me to purchase a smoothside canteen and after reading it, found that a split canteen sling might be something to get IF and I say, IF it were common. The canteen didn't come with a sling, hence this research topic.

Thanks a bunch,
Jim Ross

[1842musket]

Folks,
I visited the Chancellorsville Visitor Center today and examined the collection of canteens there. There is a Federal canteen, which is id'd to a Federal soldier (I don't remember the name or unit), which appears to have been modified by the owner. It has a leather US canteen strap that was cut, or sliced, with a knife to become a "split strap" style. So, it appears that at least a few Federal soldiers modified their straps in this fashion.
The staff there is very friendly and is more than happy to allow folks to examine the artifacts there. All you need to do is call and make an appointment.
In addition to a decent number of US and CS canteens, they have a great example of a Pittman stamped US 1839 Pattern Cartridge Box, a CS Cartridge Box for 58 cal. ammunition with a brass finial, a CS Full Front Cap Pouch with lead or iron button, a variety of holsters, scabbards and at least 5 US Doublebag Knapsacks.
Cheers,
Larry McIrvin