Now would be a good time to get a CD

[coastaltrash]

Just to put the word out- anyone planning on attending the LH and planning on falling in under Duffer, Corbin or Myself should look into getting a Columbus Depot now to have amble time to fill the order, as well as get some wear on the item. Reports of Bragg's Army being filthy as compared to the ANV are pretty clear, so plan ahead. Don't forget, there is ONE living history, but TWO sets of guidelines- one for the WIG (Duffer Corbin and Myself) and one for the Stonewall Brigade (Stiles)

AOT Uniform Guidelines

7th Texas Infantry

All items are to be made using period correct patterns and materials. No modern glasses, shoes, cigarettes or other items will be allowed.

Jackets
1. Columbus Depot Jackets
2.. Civilian Coat
3. Commutation shell jacket

Trousers
1. CS Issue trousers
2. Civilian Pattern trousers

Trousers are to be of proper material. No checks, plaids or stripes. NO federal sky blue trousers. One thing to note- at this time documentation has been found that blue (sky blue or dark blue) dyed cotton jean trouser were being issued to AOT troops.

Shirt
1. CS issue shirt
2.Civilian pattern shirt

Shoes:
1. Confederate issue
2. Canvas shoes
3. Civilian shoes or boots
4. Federal issue brogans, limited use.

Headgear:
1. Civilian Slouch Hat
2. Confederate Issue Hat
3. Kepi

Haversacks:
1. C. S. pattern. Button or buckle closure.
2. U.S. Pattern. VERY LIMITED.
CS haversacks are generally extremely cheap to either make or purchase, please make an effort to obtain a good CS bag.

Canteens:
1. Wooden type. Made of cedar/cypress/cherrywood, etc. Various styles.
2. Tin Drum. Various sizes and styles, try to find a common identified type.
3. U.S. issue smoothside with or without jean/wool cover.

Knapsacks (optional):
1. Mexican War Style.
2. Imported English. Issac Campbell and Co. maker.
3. Confederate issue/manufacture of any of above styles.
4. U. S. Issue double bag

Cartridge boxes:
1. Any A.O.T. identified box
2. Tarred canvas box, with or without sling
3. U.S. issue M 1857/61 box
4. Imported English box

Cap pouches:
1. Any A.O.T. identified pouch.
2. Tarred canvas A.O.T. pouch.
3. English Enfield pouch, white buff

Waist belt:
1. Frame type, rectangular CSA, clipped corner CS, forked tongue, roller buckle and Georgia Frame are all common.
2. Tarred canvas with above plates

Weapons:
1. 1853 Enfield
2. 1842 Springfield
All weapons should have proper modifications, and be in clean working condition. All weapons will be inspected by the NPS.

[trippcor]

Though it pains me to say it, Mr. Landrum is right. If you need to get a Columbus Depot Jacket now is a good time to order one so you have plenty of time for it to get to you before the event.

[coastaltrash]

Some prime advice for the Do It Yourself types:

If you intend to make your own Columbus Depot and thought about using Galla Rock's pattern, THROW IT IN THE TRASH. You will need to mess with the sleeves and several other pieces. I suggest buying the pattern from Charlie Childs and saving yourself the headache. Each pattern will need some adjustments but this "pattern" has nothing in common with the original as it states.

[JimConley]

I'll step in and echo these two misfits.

County Cloth offers two different kits for the Columbus Depot or Georgia jacket. Drop $100, get the kit in a timely manner, and if you cannot sew, there's a handful of names that would help you out.

If anyone needs word on someone to assemble a kit for you, myself or Mr. Landrum would be happy to point you in the right direction.

[J_V]

Just a question here - I'm not trying to be argumentative.

Given the primary source descriptions of Bragg's army at this time provided in other threads in this forum for this living history, shouldn't emphasis be placed on striking a balance between the civilian sack coat or other jacket type as opposed to pushing the more uniform-looking Columbus Depot?

Thanks for your time,

Jonathan Vaughan

[coastaltrash]

I would be interested in reading where you came to the conclusion. Some of the references you can access online that lead to the choice for the Columbus Depot jacket are Geoff Walden's article on the Columbus Depot, and I believe on the AC you can dig up some of Lee White's posts concerning the subject. One of the most over represented items to me are civilian sack coats. Rather than have many items to more correctly portray an army's appearance, people depend on one single garment and more often times it is made of jean wool rather than something of a civilian choice.

[bAcK88]

Just a question here - I'm not trying to be argumentative.

Given the primary source descriptions of Bragg's army at this time provided in other threads in this forum for this living history, shouldn't emphasis be placed on striking a balance between the civilian sack coat or other jacket type as opposed to pushing the more uniform-looking Columbus Depot?

Thanks for your time,

Jonathan Vaughan

You also have to remember that the 7th Texas wasn't part of the Army of Tennessee that long prior to Chickamauga. The 7th participated in the Vicksburg Campaign (Battle of Raymond, Johnston's Army of Relief) and after Vicksburg fell the Texans stayed in Mississippi, sitting on their butts most of the time until September before being sent East to join Bragg's army. I imagine that the 7th Texas would look a bit different from Bragg's army because the 7th was relatively stationary while the Army of Tennesee was on the move for most of the later half of the summer of 63.

[arsenal guard]

Pat,

Looking for a company to fall in with during the LH. Needing recruits?

Wade Sokolosky

[J_V]

I would be interested in reading where you came to the conclusion. Some of the references you can access online that lead to the choice for the Columbus Depot jacket are Geoff Walden's article on the Columbus Depot, and I believe on the AC you can dig up some of Lee White's posts concerning the subject. One of the most over represented items to me are civilian sack coats. Rather than have many items to more correctly portray an army's appearance, people depend on one single garment and more often times it is made of jean wool rather than something of a civilian choice.

I wasn't disparaging the use of the CD; I see that it is an accurate choice historically and a wise one from a logistics perspective. The references I cited were just the ones found in the "Some things to consider..." thread, in which both styles of garments could be said to be appropriate. Given the reference to the overall appearance of Bragg's army I had thought that a good number of civilian sacks would be appropriate. I was not aware that they are typically over-represented.

Best,

Jonathan Vaughan

[J_V]

You also have to remember that the 7th Texas wasn't part of the Army of Tennessee that long prior to Chickamauga. The 7th participated in the Vicksburg Campaign (Battle of Raymond, Johnston's Army of Relief) and after Vicksburg fell the Texans stayed in Mississippi, sitting on their butts most of the time until September before being sent East to join Bragg's army. I imagine that the 7th Texas would look a bit different from Bragg's army because the 7th was relatively stationary while the Army of Tennesee was on the move for most of the later half of the summer of 63.

Good enough. Thanks for your response.

Jonathan Vaughan

[DougCooper]

If anyone does an AoT impression even once a year, owning a CD jacket is the best choice from both a PEC standpoint as well as monetarily, barring any other more specific information. Should we suddenly discover a Houston Depot jacket owned by a soldier of the 7th Texas (there may actually be two in a private collection according to Fred Adolphus), that may change things, but for now, a good CD jacket makes sense for this and most other AoT impressions Nov 62-65.

My own opinion is that the contrast was so striking between the AoT and ANV because of the condition and color of uniforms and the amount of equipment carried by the ANV soldiers. It was not that Bragg's troops were not uniformed. A worn out CD jacket of faded jean is quite a contrast from a BG kersey RD 2 issued a few weeks before. Ditto that English knapsack and cap vs a ratty blanket roll and slouch hat.

[coastaltrash]

Didnt' Lee White, at one point or another post some information about issue to AOT. That should at least take the AOT out of the shiftless hobo area, and more into a campaigner appearance army. I doubt in Rags, but certainly far from new issue.

[Joe Walker]

Pat- I agree with you, the 7th having received most likely issues of CD jackets that were filled by the Columbus depot prior to the fall of Jackson. It is my oppion that they were cassimere, like the Jenkins jacket, but that is not available to the mass of reenactors. Lee and I have talked at some length regarding Jenkins being at Chick. and his may be the only one (jacket) documented to the battle. Capt Norvell commanding Co A (1st Lt at the battle) needed clothing after the battle, drawing 2 jackets, 7 pr pants, 12 pr drawers, 7 shirts, and 17 pr shoes on Sept 30th. His company, Co A, "Waco Guards" had about 25 enlisted men at that time so you can deduce what they looked like on the 19th of September. Anyone going barfoot for this one?

Joe Walker
Waco Guards

[Coatsy]

Joe, thanks for the information! And no I will not be going bearfoot. I was thinking about the distinct differences with the ANV and the AOT and while I agree that some of Bragg's men would have had some worn gear, especially after marching from Central Tennessee to North Georgia over hilly terrain, I think that other soldiers, especially the men coming from Mississippi and Alabama would have gear that was in better shape because of the access to the supply depots. I am currently reading up on this so I'll post what I can find.

Reading more and more about the gathering of Confederate forces in North Georgia in the late Summer of 1863; Buckner's men from Knoxville, Granbury's men from the Mississippi theatre, and Longstreet of course from Virginia makes for an interesting array of appearance.

[DougCooper]

Pat- I agree with you, the 7th having received most likely issues of CD jackets that were filled by the Columbus depot prior to the fall of Jackson. It is my oppion that they were cassimere, like the Jenkins jacket, but that is not available to the mass of reenactors. Lee and I have talked at some length regarding Jenkins being at Chick. and his may be the only one (jacket) documented to the battle. Capt Norvell commanding Co A (1st Lt at the battle) needed clothing after the battle, drawing 2 jackets, 7 pr pants, 12 pr drawers, 7 shirts, and 17 pr shoes on Sept 30th. His company, Co A, "Waco Guards" had about 25 enlisted men at that time so you can deduce what they looked like on the 19th of September. Anyone going barfoot for this one?

Joe Walker
Waco Guards

Joe brings up a good point on cassimere. Actually, Charlie Childs CFG (gray brown cassimere) is a perfect fabric for the Jenkins jacket. See http://www.crchilds.com/id44.htm. Research by Lee White, Fred Baker and others have identified the fabric coming out of Lee Mills in Columbus as a majority of cassimere. Ideally, one could grab some CFG from Charlie and ask Chris Daley, Dan Wambaugh, etc to make you a CD jacket, if you did not want to go with the standard fabrics they are using.

[Daryl Black]

Fellows,

I thought I'd jump in a play the devil's advocate for a bit concerning clothes for Chickamauga. There were most certainly blue trimmed jackets being worn by C. S. troops. At least one description of Stewart's division seems to suggest that at least a large body of those men were wearing Columbus type jackets. The jacket Joe Walker mentions is likely a Chickamauga relic worn by a man in a cavarly unit serving on escort duty with one of the high ranking C. S. officers (Polk, I think?).

On the other hand, the descriptions Lee has posted suggest a "come as you are" appearance. Indeed several of the quotes posted in the event folder come from troops serving in the units surrounding the 7th Texas. Without doubt there were issues of clothing made in Columbus going to the troops in Mississippi around the time of the fall of Jackson. But unless my memory fails, that was July 1863. That is a long time before these fellows got on the trains heading to Tennessee. Two other units (41st TN and 60th NC) serving in the same area of operations and that ended up at Chickamauga experienced problems with clothing issues through the summer of 1863. My overall sense based on my own reading, Lee's research, and Tom A's work is that a more appropriate unit impression would be a WIDE mixture of issue clothing, civilian attire, homemade military clothes all in a fairly well worn condition.

Daryl Black

P. S. The barefoot men of the army were assigned duty with the QM wagon trains. Bragg didn't want them impacting the army's ability to move quickly.

[coastaltrash]

Daryl,
One of the surviving jackets that was used during the campaign and well into the Siege of Vicksburg is still in relatively good shape and it saw some good usage. I would say that July-September 63 is not that long of a time for a garment or a company to be in absolute shambles or a mixed rag tag of clothing. We could sit and debate it all day long, both sides having great historical points, but the guidelines are set as they are for reasons.

[HighPrvt]

Between July, and Sept the 7th was just lounging around Enterprise, Mississippi . So one could surmise that they didn't put much "wear 'n' tear" on their uniforms.

[Daryl Black]

Wear does not come only from campaign activity. Camp duty, drill, etc. leads to everyday wear. Unless I'm remembering wrongly pants usually lasted about a month and a jacket about three -- I believe this pattern was mentioned in Jensen's old article and quoted a soldier source (Dickertt maybe?). Of course we could speculate all day long. However, we do know from brigade mates of the 7th and men in units surrounding the 7th getting issue clothes was a problem; and at least one Federal officer fighting in front of Gregg's brigade (Hinman, 65th Ohio) and one in a brigade that followed in Gregg's wake during the fighting on the 20th (3rd SC) noted the lack of uniformity of the western men.

Daryl

[LWhite64]

Not concerning wear or no wear, there should be more than just CDs being worn, we need more of a mix than that, too many accounts refer to the haphazard appearance of the western men.

Lee

[CYoungJSU]

I whole-heartedly agree with Lee and Daryl on this subject. Not being able to access any of my resources at the moment, I can give no specific accounts. The majority of accounts I have read concerning "western" troops engaged at Chickamauga show that a lack of uniformity prevailed. Remember Fremantle's comments about the "westerners" during the Tullahoma Campaign. Although there are accounts of companies being fairly well uniformed with CDs or the like (i.e. a letter from a captain, I believe, in the 13th/15th Arkansas), I am not a fan of the 1.2.3. method of preference. As Daryl stated, clothing did not last very long even when "active" campaigning did not occur. I think one also must take into consideration the availability of clothing provided by private citizens. Those soldiers from trans-mississipi states cut off by Federal control of the Mississippi River, must have needed to rely more heavily upon government clothing issuances than those from states not cut off or under total confederate control. I mean, let's look at Pvt. Johnson's (29th Ala.) frock that his mother provided that he was killed in at the Battle of Peachtree Creek in 1864. My opinion is not to hold too tight to those "rules" but allow a well defined mixture of clothing in the ranks. Just my humble observations from several years of research on western soldiers and Chickamauga.

Chris

[coastaltrash]

All,
I'm not disagreeing with the mixture of uniforms, but aren't the jackets listed in order of preference on the guidelines with resulting choices in case #1 is not available- that's why they are called guidelines and not standards. If someone does not have a CD, which not all people do, then follow the guidelines. If you go by that method you'll no doubt end up with a good variety although I felt the uniform appearance at the Chickamauga event in 2003 was mighty impressive.