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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Sweden
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    11

    Question Confederate Prisoners???

    Hi

    Found this picture on a photo site, it is tittled "camp scene probably belle plain" zoomed in on the Tiff and found these guys who i think is confederate?
    Could any of you gentlemen with a better eye help me out
    If they are confeds it surely is a great photo!!
    great deitails!, and could be awsome to diskuss

    This is the adress of the site
    http://narademo.umiacs.umd.edu/cgi-b....pl?item=45486

    Just download the master image!

    I want to upload it to the thread, could some body please help with this
    i have not done this before!

    Best
    Nicholas O`Grady

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    328

    Re: Confederate Prisoners???

    These guys are definitely Confederates. Great image and great zoom ability. I think it is interesting to note that all the tents behind them should be Confederates as well and there is an extremely large number of shelter tents back there. So these Confederates had shelter halves, hmmmmmmmm.....
    Last edited by 27thNCdrummer; 04-17-2008 at 09:50 PM. Reason: Changed "their" to "there".
    Andrew Turner
    Co.D 27th NCT
    Liberty Rifles

    "Well, by God, Iíll take my men in and if they outflank me Iíll face my men about and cut my way out. Forward, men!Ē Gen. John R. Cooke at Bristoe Station,VA

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Lafayette IN
    Posts
    1,331

    Re: Confederate Prisoners???

    The individuals shown are, indeed, Confederates and this image has already been extensively discussed. This is one of several Belle Plain "Punch Bowl" images extensively analyzed by William Frassanito in his "Grant and Lee: The Virginia Campaigns, 1864-1865" (Gettysburg PA: Thomas Publications, 1983, p. 57-60). Under close examination, Frassanito was able to pick out a man wearing "Al 4" brass on his hat, indicating he was likely in the 4th Alabama Infantry (Law's Brigade, Field's Division, Longstreet's Corps), which was, in fact, heavily engaged in the Wilderness and at Spotsylvania Court House. Tentative dating for the photograph is either 16 or 17 May 1864 based on documentary evidence.

    Given this, the odds are pretty good many, if not all, of the men shown in the immediate foreground were Alabamians as well--maybe even members of the same regiment.

    Regards,

    Mark Jaeger


    Quote Originally Posted by skulker View Post
    Hi

    Found this picture on a photo site, it is tittled "camp scene probably belle plain" zoomed in on the Tiff and found these guys who i think is confederate?
    Could any of you gentlemen with a better eye help me out
    If they are confeds it surely is a great photo!!
    great deitails!, and could be awsome to diskuss

    This is the adress of the site
    http://narademo.umiacs.umd.edu/cgi-b....pl?item=45486

    Just download the master image!

    I want to upload it to the thread, could some body please help with this
    i have not done this before!

    Best
    Nicholas O`Grady

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    1,231

    Re: Confederate Prisoners???

    As Mark has stated, this is part of the "Punch Bowl" series. It's quite possible that the tents are US, either put up for the prisoners or carried by the Confederates. Many of the rebs captured at Spotsylvania were from the Second Corps, which had captured many US 6th Corps shelters in the Wilderness.

    The Punch Bowl was a former winter 1862-1863 US camp. The holes the men are sitting in are the remnants of abandoned huts. Hunters who have been on this property believe it was the camp of regiments from the Iron Brigade, based on the Wisconsin buttons found there and the fact that it was the area occupied by the US 1st Corps during that winter.

    Eric
    Eric J. Mink
    Co. A, 4th Va Inf
    Stonewall Brigade

    Help Preserve the Slaughter Pen Farm - Fredericksburg, Va.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Mississippi
    Posts
    149

    Re: Confederate Prisoners???




    Ryan Burns
    The Skulkers Mess

    GGG Grandson of 1st Sgt. Albert Burns
    3rd Mississippi Infantry Regiment

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Out West
    Posts
    1,704

    Re: Confederate Prisoners???

    Shelter tents were not something rare for CS soldiers, at least in the eastern theatre. As Eric mentions, many were captured at the Wildnerness and they are mentioned from time to time as being manufactured for CS troops as well. There is a great quote from a civilian witness to Lee's retreat from Petersburg who describes a "sea of white tents" where the ANV stopped on the night of April 4, 1865.

    Note the RD pattern jackets - two of these men appear (front and lower left) to have RD 2's, with shoulders straps and belt loops. One wonders if the man in the center is from the Ambulance Corps - note the dark hat band. The man to the right in the forage cap may be US.
    Soli Deo Gloria
    Doug Cooper

    "The past is never dead. It's not even past." William Faulkner

    Please support the CWPT at www.civilwar.org

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Near the Nothern Central RR
    Posts
    143

    Re: Confederate Prisoners???

    Nothing says "make yourself at home...sit 'n stay awhile" like four field-pieces frowning down on you from the plateau above...
    Tom Scoufalos


    "If you don't play with your toys, someone else will after you die." - Michael Schaffner, Chris Daley, and probably other people too...

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Near the Nothern Central RR
    Posts
    143

    Re: Confederate Prisoners???

    Quote Originally Posted by RN_PAC View Post
    Nothing says "make yourself at home...sit 'n stay awhile" like four field-pieces frowning down on you from the plateau above...
    FINALLY figured out how to post a cropped closeup. That's what I get for being such an avowed technophobe
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Tom Scoufalos


    "If you don't play with your toys, someone else will after you die." - Michael Schaffner, Chris Daley, and probably other people too...

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    11

    Thumbs up Re: Confederate Prisoners???

    Hi

    Yes thanks for posting the closeups for me, it is great to see some evidence that the RD 2 type shells were realy common among the soldiers at this period of the war, and hat brass on confederates this late???(Not realy PEC)
    If the RD is so common even among this small group of soldiers, it must have been very comon in the army as a whole!
    I have been thinking if the other guys in the photo wheres RD 3 type shells(no shoulder straps) or NC type shells!
    Anyway great image!

    Nick O`Grady

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    11

    Re: Confederate Prisoners???

    In one of the un-cropped photos there is another soldier standing in the corner with a dark colored RD 2 type shell and a realy "Cowboy" looking hat!
    and two guys in shrt sleeves!
    I however do not think the guy sitting nearest to the camera with the cap is a federal, but that he is also a confederate maybe dressed in a suit made of EA blue-gray cloth(might be a RD 3 if it is a short jacket OR a frock with lighter color pants! cant realy see if the coat ends above waist line!
    the fourth sitting guy(whit the bowler typ hat), and the 4Th AL soldier also have a dark color uniform could be EA as well!, the other guys have lighter colored jackets
    What realy stands out to me in all photos of late war confederates, is that it was a lot dark colored uniforms around in the ANV!

    there is another great but sad photo of confederates lying dead at Gettysburg, ibelive this was said to be around the round tops!, in this the dead men is wearing matching uniforms trowsers and jacket so dark almost to a black in color!, it is on the LOC

    Nick O`Grady

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