fancy tobacco pouches

[jwoodli]

I was wondering how prevalent fancy (silk, embroidered, colorful, etc.) tobacco pouches would have been. I can't seem to find a good thread that has already addressed this topic. I have seen two nice originals at the Atlanta History Center, and they seem to have been unique and treasured pieces of "flare" for a soldier. Is there a period of the war where these would have been more common than at another time? Are there any good photos with soldiers in possession of a pouch? I kinda want to add one of these (not just a practical pouch, but a fancy one) to my impression, but am afraid of being branded a 'dandy'.
Thanks.
Dylan Woodliff

[Charles Heath]

Neal Sexton used to make some nice ones. Take the time to look him up, or seek out the nice do-it-yourself article. In addition to those two resources, Spiros had a few of the ugly rubber variety in his case at the shop a while back.

[Carolann Schmitt]

Mid-nineteenth century women's magazines frequently published patterns and directions for making tobacco bags, tobacco pouches, and similar items. I did an on-line search of the entire run of Godey's Lady's Book and was a bit surprised at the results. I found twelve different patterns for fancy tobacco bags, but all of them were in issues published after the war: July 1867, December 1868, September 1869, February 1870, November 1872, January 1875, May 1875, June 1876, March 1877, June 1879, January 1880 and March 1880.

I believe there was a pattern for a tobacco bag published in an issue of Peterson's Magazine from 1861 or 1864. I do not have online access to Peterson's and will have to look for that pattern manually.

I have not personally seen the examples in the Atlanta History Center. Are they documented to 1861-1865?

More research is needed, but the search of Godey's seems to indicate fancy tobacco pouches and bags were much more common in the post-war era than they were during the war years.

Regards,

[MarkTK36thIL]

Check the social groups for Smoke and Chew. I added some examples a little while back.

[jwoodli]

Interesting. Thanks for the responses. The pouches at the Atlanta History Center are represented as being sent to soldiers from home during the war, but I cannot verify the actual provenience of these pouches. One of them is embroidered with "Macon Light Artillery" I believe, and is of a four-panel design; the other is a two-panel design made of red bocade silk, has a crimped fringe, and both are about the size of two hands clasped together.
What about feelings of such a person being branded a 'dandy'?

[tenfed1861]

If you contact Kara Bartlet at Corner Clothiers,she may be able to help you.She does make "sweetheart" pouches that are pretty nice.She could help give you info.

[Ian McWherter]

What about feelings of such a person being branded a 'dandy'?

I'd say if you really want to add one of these pouches to your soldier impression and can find the supporting documentation (i.e. soldier's description, original example with soldier provenance) then go for it and don't let what others think bother you. Civilian men of the mid-19th C. wore and carried many items that today's uber man might find ridiculous. Heck, if one even goes so far as to take a little pride in his appearance, wear a cravat, polish his boots, put on a clean shirt, etc. (basically what my grandfather his father and so on, all blue collar working men, did everyday) at a reenactment everyone comes crawling out of the woodwork to call you a dandy.

Does anyone want to contribute some actual historical documentation to this thread, or do vendor recommendations suffice for the historic record? I'm interested in seeing actual historical descriptions and examples of soldier "fancy" pouches. If vendors want to contribute to this thread by discussing the original examples they copied and put a plug in for their goods, fine, at least we get some information. If nobody has anything to contribute, then we must turn to the now painful realm of book learning, my God.

[Virginia Mescher]

Mid-nineteenth century women's magazines frequently published patterns and directions for making tobacco bags, tobacco pouches, and similar items. I did an on-line search of the entire run of Godey's Lady's Book and was a bit surprised at the results. I found twelve different patterns for fancy tobacco bags, but all of them were in issues published after the war: July 1867, December 1868, September 1869, February 1870, November 1872, January 1875, May 1875, June 1876, March 1877, June 1879, January 1880 and March 1880.

I believe there was a pattern for a tobacco bag published in an issue of Peterson's Magazine from 1861 or 1864. I do not have online access to Peterson's and will have to look for that pattern manually.

I have not personally seen the examples in the Atlanta History Center. Are they documented to 1861-1865?

More research is needed, but the search of Godey's seems to indicate fancy tobacco pouches and bags were much more common in the post-war era than they were during the war years.

Regards,

I did a quick online search of Peterson's and other publications and found the following (Peterson's seemed to have great many tobacco users): Peterson's Sept. 1853 had the following quote in a pattern for a "ladies' work-bag." "We must observe that bags of the most ornamental descriptions are now greatly used by Parisian belles, for holding the handkerchief, purses, &c. They are very small, and are made in crochet, netting, or embroidery. We would not whisper the atrocity to even the winds, nevertheless it is a fact, that these same exquisite pieces of workmanship are the rage among gentlemen for tobacco-pouches. The only difference is, that the lady's reticule is lined with silk or satin, and the gentleman's blague with lamb-skin." [The pattern for the ladies' work-bag was rippled crocheted pattern in black, yellow and scarlet.]

Peterson's December 1858, a braided, lined tobacco pouch with metal clasp closure.

Peterson's November 1859, a "crochet tobacco-pouch, ornamented with flowers in relief." This one had many crocheted flowers around the pouch and tassels hanging off the sides and from the bottom.

Peterson's February 1862, "Tobacco pouch, braided in gold and red cloth." This one just had the outline of the pattern for the pouch and the braid pattern with no instructions.

Peterson's July 1862, "Tobacco bag." This pouch was made of Russian leather with a braided design of blue velvet and lined with white kid.

Peterson's March 1865, "Tobacco Bag." This bag was a rounded pouch made of velvet, silk, cloth, or cashmere and lined with leather. The pattern for each side was included as was the design for the embroidery which was done in beads. The seams were covered with braid.

Peterson's May 1866, Tobacco Bag." This was a crocheted bag don in blue, red or green, lined with chamois.

Peterson's July 1866, "Tobacco Pouch in braid and embroidery." There was only a pattern with no directions for this rounded pouch.

Peterson's December 1866, "Tobacco-pouch." This one was a four piece paneled pouch of cashmere or velvet with steel bead tassels. It was lined with leather.

Peterson's January 1867, "Turkish Tobacco-pouch." This one was a four paneled pouch style bag with colorful embroidery on each panel and joining the panels. It was made of colored cashmere and lined with white kid or chamois. The instructions started out stating, "Oriental designs are now all the rage in Paris and London. One sees them in carpets, rugs, shawls, everything." It continues to describe the difference between Persian and Turkish designs before the instructions begin.

Peterson's June 1867, "Oriental Tobacco Pouch in Chain Stitch." There was only a illustration of the design with no instructions. The design in the middle of the pouch had various kinds of pipes and styles of pouches embroidered and there was a chain stitch looped pattern along the edges of pouch. There were tassels on the sides and bottom.

Peterson's June 1867, "Tobacco Bag." This bag was done with velvet, cloth or silk and had a cardboard bottom but did not indicate a leather lining.

I'll stop giving the details for the pouches but there were additional patterns and instructions in the following issues of Peterson's. May 1869, June, 1869, Aug. 1869, May, 1870, October 1871, April 1885 (2 patterns), August 1885, August 18887, and February 1889. The online access ended there. Some of the patterns were simple but others were elaborate with embroidery, braid, tatting, or other needlework.

[PanzerJager]

I Know the SC relic room has several tobacco pouches that are attributed to civil war provenance although I have not seen them in person. On this web page, http://www.psrs-csa.com/thismonthsnewsletter.htm if you scroll down and search there used to be a photo of the pouches in the collection, which currently the link doesn’t seem to be working, perhaps some one who has seen the pouches or saved the photo could post for reference, the descriptions below are copied and pasted from the web address above:

Tobacco Pouches of SC Confederate Relic Room & Museum

Details – Tobacco Pouches of SC Confederate Relic Room & Museum
1). 2.10 or B2.15. museum number
date range – 1864
Height 5 ½"
Width 4 ¼"
Black cotton covering with black silk top section and interior, red piping trim along all 4 seams; multi-colored flower pattern embroidered along 2 sides (red, green, yellow, blue); blue and red dots embroidered on other 2 sides; drawstring appears to be made of twine
(I brought this one – it had the embroidered flowers)
2). 2.7.28.27.159
date range – 1861-1865
H – 4 ¾", 9" with tassels
W – 3 ½", 16 ¼" with tassels
Black silk outer covering, gold silk rope drawstrings with 2 gold tassels, 2 gold tassels attached at the bottom of the pouch, 4 overlapping hearts sewn along pouc’s lower half in grayish silk.
3). UNOC 504
date range – 1861-1865
H – 7 ½"
W – 4 ½"
Black silk; embroidered design and W. B. Williams; soft leather interior, piping (used to be red)
4). 1.11.75 or B3.3.15 De Treville
date range – 1861-1865
H- 5 ¼"
W – 5 ¾" at widest
Ribbon top, green outer silk; no side seam on outer edge; black velvet center; red embroidered drawstring

[jwoodli]

Thanks for all the responses. I sewed one up the other day trying to mimic one of the pouches at the Atlanta History Center (the red one in a photo on the Smoke and Chew social group).
Are there any good photos of these AND soldiers...?
Thanks.