Technical discussions and information about Henry and Spencer Rifles

[MarkTK36thIL]

Where's CHS when you need him?

Were Spencer rifle bayonets sized differently than muskets? Will an original fit?Spencer Rifle Bayonet

[trippcor]

No one is making a repro bayonet for the spencer however it is very similar to a standard Springfield Bayonet. According to Curt Schmit on another forum he was able to get a Springfield bayonet to fit a Spencer. From what I could find only about 11,000 bayonets were producted for the Spencer. I have no idea if an original will fit a repro gun. But at $750 or so a pop I don't think many of us will have one.

[thad gallagher]

Found this website showing an Enfield bayonet on a Spencer Rifle.

http://armscollectors.com/mgs/spence...ting_rifle.htm

So if the Blakeslee cartridge box wasn't common in the field until late '64, what was the common practice to carry your spencer ammunition without one? Did one keep the rounds loose in their regular issue box?

[trippcor]

I will need to go and check back with some of the Critters but I believe their research showed that many men carried their rounds in a standard cartridge box that they removed the tins from and used the actual boxes the rounds were issued in to organize the rounds in the cartridge box. Coley told me that they have tried it that way in the field and it seems to work well.

[brown]

Tripp,
Harvey Cash showed me a similiar account from Wilder's Brigade of the men removing the tins from their old cartridge boxes, and also using pockets to hold rounds, b/c they often carried more rounds than their cartridge box could hold.

[44 Henry]

First I would like to say that it is great that someone is planning on doing another Henry Impression in Civil War reenacting. The Henry Rifle has been a hobby of mine for over 30 years. The two greatest resourses dealing with the Henry Rifle and its uses during the Civil War are the book by Ren Barker entitled Company "D", 66th Illinois: Birge's Western Sharpshooters in the Civil War, 1861-1865 and the book “The Henry Repeating Rifle” by Andrew L. Bresnan that can be found at http://www.rarewinchesters.com/artic...t_hen_00.shtml
Both of these resources are excellent. The down side is that Barker’s book is out of print.

In 1989 at Franklin and through the early 1990s a National Henry Rifle Company was formed and participated in several national reenactments including Bentonville, Franklin, Chickamauga, Spring Hill, Resaca and several others. It was great to have 15 to 20 Henrys at an event. Unfortunately the Henry Rifle for use in reenactments has been misunderstood for a long time. The Henry and the Spencer were considered the assault rifle of its day and was used as such. So to buy a Henry and fire no faster than a muzzleloader is a misuse of the Henry and it’s firepower. The research will bear this out. An example was Allatoona Pass, GA where the 7th Illinois fired over 31,000 in 2 hours of fighting with having less than 200 Henrys. Depending on the reenactment the ammunition required should be in the neighborhood of 300 to 500 rounds. It sounds like a lot of ammo but if you are engaged in a battle you will know exactly what I mean. In researching Henry tactics you will find that the rapidity of fire is what is mentioned frequently. It is mentioned how fast they worked the levers on their rifles, firing 90 rounds non-stop, and working the levers like pump handles. Plan for the unpredictable by having enough ammo for the event. To be caught short of ammo means all you have is a useless fancy club with an empty Henry.

Blanks can be very expensive when using a Henry rifle. The use of plastic blanks is not a good choice however several have used the plastic blank and I guess they will work if nothing else is available. Plastic blanks do have several problems and safety concerns. These concerns include the following: 1. the extractor will rip through the rim of the plastic case at times causing a case stuck in the chamber. 2. plastic residue will accumulate in the barrel causing a dangerous and difficult to clean mess, 3. When the chamber heats up with firing the plastic will have a tendency to again stick in the barrel, 4. Plastic rounds have been known to cook off in a hot barrel, 5. Another big issue especially if we want to look authentic is the plastic round itself, it just doesn’t look right nor does it sound like a Civil War rifle.

Blanks loaded in brass cases can be very expensive. If you are going to buy blanks make sure that they are FULL LENGTH blanks, the length of a live round. Some manufacturers sell blanks for use in pistols such as for the SASS Cowboy shooters. These will not function in your .44-40 Henry as they will be too short and will cause the Henry to jam. Starline makes the proper length case but are again very expensive. If buying from Swanson make sure the price that is quoted is for the FULL LENGTH blanks, the length of a live round. Another concern when using black powder in your blanks is the fact that fouling will be a big problem after 20 to 30 rounds. If using plastic rounds with smokeless powder that fouling problem is not an issue but they do not sound like a Civil War weapon going off, another reason why not to use plastic.
The current made Henry as produced by Uberti has only a 13 round magazine capacity. The real Henry had a magazine capacity of 16 for the shorter earlier .44 Henry cartridge and 15 round capacity for the redesigned Henry cartridge of 1864. Several of us have converted our Henrys to shoot a blank loaded in a .44 Magnum brass to make the Henry a true 16-17 shooter counting the round in the chamber. If you load your own blanks using the .44 Magnum cases the cost is only about $23 per 100 blanks. Used Henry rifles can be purchased for between $750 and $900 depending on where you look. The SASS web site has used ones for sell from time to time. A warning concerning acquiring a new Henry is to be careful of the magazine slot, these can be very sharp and can cut you. A small file can cure that problem. Also when buying a Henry it is best to get one with a sling on it or if you buy one without a sling mount you might want to put one on. It comes in very handy on a long march.

Carrying blanks at the event can be done by using a haversack, any make of cartridge box or a Henry cartridge box. Henry cartridge boxes were not common nor were they an issued item. Most Civil War soldiers using a Henry carried rounds in whatever way was best suited for them. Cartridge belts were not in wide use either, in fact maybe only one or 2 were even used.

If you are going to carry a Henry rifle you should know how to take care of it in the field. In fact I have replaced firing pins, main springs, etc. in the field at events. So have the tools to work on your Henry with you or you might be down and out.

I hope the above information is useful as there is no need to reinvent the wheel if it is not necessary. I am looking forward to attending this event.
Andy

[Peachfuz]

Found this on the N-SSA board regarding the Armisport Spencer: http://www.n-ssa.org/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=10451

[44 Henry]

First I would like to say that it is great that someone is planning on doing another Henry Impression in Civil War reenacting. The Henry Rifle has been a hobby of mine for over 30 years. The two greatest resourses dealing with the Henry Rifle and its uses during the Civil War are the book by Ren Barker entitled Company "D", 66th Illinois: Birge's Western Sharpshooters in the Civil War, 1861-1865 and the book “The Henry Repeating Rifle” by Andrew L. Bresnan that can be found at http://www.rarewinchesters.com/artic...t_hen_00.shtml
Both of these resources are excellent. The down side is that Barker’s book is out of print.

In 1989 at Franklin and through the early 1990s a National Henry Rifle Company was formed and participated in several national reenactments including Bentonville, Franklin, Chickamauga, Spring Hill, Resaca and several others. It was great to have 15 to 20 Henrys at an event. Unfortunately the Henry Rifle for use in reenactments has been misunderstood for a long time. The Henry and the Spencer were considered the assault rifle of its day and was used as such. So to buy a Henry and fire no faster than a muzzleloader is a misuse of the Henry and it’s firepower. The research will bear this out. An example was Allatoona Pass, GA where the 7th Illinois fired over 31,000 in 2 hours of fighting with having less than 200 Henrys. Depending on the reenactment the ammunition required should be in the neighborhood of 300 to 500 rounds. It sounds like a lot of ammo but if you are engaged in a battle you will know exactly what I mean. In researching Henry tactics you will find that the rapidity of fire is what is mentioned frequently. It is mentioned how fast they worked the levers on their rifles, firing 90 rounds non-stop, and working the levers like pump handles. Plan for the unpredictable by having enough ammo for the event. To be caught short of ammo means all you have is a useless fancy club with an empty Henry.

Blanks can be very expensive when using a Henry rifle. The use of plastic blanks is not a good choice however several have used the plastic blank and I guess they will work if nothing else is available. Plastic blanks do have several problems and safety concerns. These concerns include the following: 1. the extractor will rip through the rim of the plastic case at times causing a case stuck in the chamber. 2. plastic residue will accumulate in the barrel causing a dangerous and difficult to clean mess, 3. When the chamber heats up with firing the plastic will have a tendency to again stick in the barrel, 4. Plastic rounds have been known to cook off in a hot barrel, 5. Another big issue especially if we want to look authentic is the plastic round itself, it just doesn’t look right nor does it sound like a Civil War rifle.

Blanks loaded in brass cases can be very expensive. If you are going to buy blanks make sure that they are FULL LENGTH blanks, the length of a live round. Some manufacturers sell blanks for use in pistols such as for the SASS Cowboy shooters. These will not function in your .44-40 Henry as they will be too short and will cause the Henry to jam. Starline makes the proper length case but are again very expensive. If buying from Swanson make sure the price that is quoted is for the FULL LENGTH blanks, the length of a live round. Another concern when using black powder in your blanks is the fact that fouling will be a big problem after 20 to 30 rounds. If using plastic rounds with smokeless powder that fouling problem is not an issue but they do not sound like a Civil War weapon going off, another reason why not to use plastic.
The current made Henry as produced by Uberti has only a 13 round magazine capacity. The real Henry had a magazine capacity of 16 for the shorter earlier .44 Henry cartridge and 15 round capacity for the redesigned Henry cartridge of 1864. Several of us have converted our Henrys to shoot a blank loaded in a .44 Magnum brass to make the Henry a true 16-17 shooter counting the round in the chamber. If you load your own blanks using the .44 Magnum cases the cost is only about $23 per 100 blanks. Used Henry rifles can be purchased for between $750 and $900 depending on where you look. The SASS web site has used ones for sell from time to time. A warning concerning acquiring a new Henry is to be careful of the magazine slot, these can be very sharp and can cut you. A small file can cure that problem. Also when buying a Henry it is best to get one with a sling on it or if you buy one without a sling mount you might want to put one on. It comes in very handy on a long march.

Carrying blanks at the event can be done by using a haversack, any make of cartridge box or a Henry cartridge box. Henry cartridge boxes were not common nor were they an issued item. Most Civil War soldiers using a Henry carried rounds in whatever way was best suited for them. Cartridge belts were not in wide use either, in fact maybe only one or 2 were even used.

If you are going to carry a Henry rifle you should know how to take care of it in the field. In fact I have replaced firing pins, main springs, etc. in the field at events. So have the tools to work on your Henry with you or you might be down and out.

I hope the above information is useful as there is no need to reinvent the wheel if it is not necessary. I am looking forward to attending this event.
Andy Bresnan
National Henry Rifle Company
7th Illinois Veteran Volunteer Infantry
ICSS
66th Illinois Infantry WSS

[country rifle]

Fellow Enthusiasts,

Has any thought been given to converting the newly acquired Henrys so that they will be correct as true 16 shooters?

The repop Henry rifles right out of the box will not be 16 shooters and thus incorrect for use in an 1860's envrionment.

A little food for thought.

Sincerely,

Robert Leinweber
ICSS

[Dan Wambaugh]

Rob,

How exactly is that accomplished? Is that an at home "in the workshop" process or something that would require the rifle to be sent to a gunsmith? I for one would certainly be interested in getting the rifle as authentic and get any bugs worked out before the event. Knowing that you have been carrying a Henry for 10-15 years I know I speak for everyone who is considering plunking $900+ on a Henry when I say any advice or information you can offer will be greatly appreciated.


Best,

Dan