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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Ruckersville, VA
    Posts
    23

    Pattern for Austrian knot on Sleeves?

    My wife is making a double-breasted frock coat for my CS officer impression. The pattern does not include instructions on how to form the austrian knots that go on the sleeves. In my case, 2 rows will be needed.

    I've looked at several pictures of actual frocks from the period (mostly of senior officers and generals). Some had no braid, some had braid that just followed the edge of the cuff trim (around the cuff, including the point), and those that had the knots on the sleeve, no 2 were alike.

    Part of me thinks that would give her license to just "do her best" and it would be equivalent. But we were wondering if there were any instructions out there on how to form the knot and when to sew it on. (i.e. is it any easier to sew them on when the sleeve is detached from the bodice)

    Has anyone here sewn these on before? If so, did you follow a pattern or just base it off a picture? Any tips/tricks/advice?

    Thanks,
    Matt O'Driscoll
    1st Reg. KY Volunteers, Co. E

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    1,142

    Re: Pattern for Austrian knot on Sleeves?

    Nevermind. Mods you can delete this post.
    Last edited by Dan Wambaugh; 10-06-2009 at 09:40 PM.
    Dan Wambaugh
    Wambaugh, White, & Company
    www.wwandcompany.com
    517-303-3609
    Become our fan on Facebook by clicking HERE

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Woodbine, Maryland
    Posts
    341

    Re: Pattern for Austrian knot on Sleeves?

    I am looking for some of the same advice. I have a drawing, but it is not what I am really looking for. Same experience, have looked at many, and no two are alike. Does anyone have any suggestions.
    Rob Bruno
    1st MD Cav
    http://1stmarylandcavalry.com

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Murrieta, California
    Posts
    819

    Re: Pattern for Austrian knot on Sleeves?

    Suggestions? Why not go without? Not all officer's coats had the braiding, for both personal and financial reasons....
    Tom "Mingo" Machingo
    Independent Rifles, Weevil's Mess

    Vixi Et Didici

    "I think and highly hope that this war will end this year, and Oh then what a happy time we will have. No need of writing then but we can talk and talk again, and my boy can talk to me and I will never tire of listening to him and he will want to go with me everywhere I go, and I will be certain to let him go if there is any possible chance."
    Marion Hill Fitzpatrick
    Company K, 45th Georgia Infantry
    KIA Petersburg, Virginia

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Brooklyn, NY
    Posts
    387

    Re: Pattern for Austrian knot on Sleeves?

    While their patterns vary in quality and accuracy, Harriet Engler has a pattern for this; it can at least be used as a guideline if your spatial ability, like mine, could benefit from a road map.

    http://www.harriets.com/mensaccesscw.htm
    Marc A. Hermann
    The Daybreak B'hoys.
    Hardtack Society - Liberty Rifles.
    Company of Military Historians.
    Oliver Tilden Camp No 26, SUVCW.


    In honor of Sgt. William H. Forrest, Co. K, 114th PA Vol. Infantry. Pvt. Emanuel Hermann, 45th PA Militia. Lt. George W. Hopkins & Capt. William K. Hopkins, Co. E, 7th PA Reserves. Pvt. Joseph A. Weckerly, 72nd PA Vol. Infantry (WIA June 29, 1862, d. March 23, 1866.) Pvt. Thomas Will, 21st PA Vol. Cavalry (WIA June 18, 1864, d. July 31, 1864.)

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Ruckersville, VA
    Posts
    23

    Re: Pattern for Austrian knot on Sleeves?

    Thanks for the link to the pattern. It wouldn't arrive in time for when I need the coat completed, but I've bookmarked it for future reference.

    Some tips I received from friends which could prove useful to others:
    - before attaching the sleeve to the bodice, lay flat and draw the knot pattern onto the sleeve with tailor's chalk
    - once the pattern is to your liking, tack down the braid with needles following the chalk line
    - sew on

    Knot patterns varied from tailor to tailor and all were probably unique. The trick will be getting the left and right sleeves on the same coat to match! I'll probably cut out some paper in the shape of the sleeve and draw on the paper. Then once I have it looking the way I like, I'll have a template to transfer the design from the paper to the sleeves.

    Will report back how it turns out, maybe even with pics, and will document the process used for future refernce.
    Matt O'Driscoll
    1st Reg. KY Volunteers, Co. E

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Woodbine, Maryland
    Posts
    341

    Re: Pattern for Austrian knot on Sleeves?

    I have thought about leaving mine off, but I am using a specific coat as a model. I have examined and studied this particular coat and it has the braid. So, I want to make sure I do the braid right.
    Rob Bruno
    1st MD Cav
    http://1stmarylandcavalry.com

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Baltimore, MD... on da Harbor
    Posts
    379

    Re: Pattern for Austrian knot on Sleeves?

    Gents,
    Per the comment about leaving it off.. We have very few original coats that were actually in service/field compared to how many there actually were. Look at most pictures of DB frocks and you will see that a little over 50% have the sleeve braid. There was a MOC study done on this awhile back and this was the figure. Also notes on the amount of frocks to coatees(shells) and DB to single brested tunics. I will attempt to look this information up.

    Here is my point. For this community do you think those numbers are represented? Look around at the next Picket post or living history. You will see that there are very few who do have the sleeve braid. For many reasons this is the case...

    SO...I own 3 CS officer frocks and 2 CS officer Short coats. I have Braid on all of them. (insert pitch for Joe Blunt here). They are all after original tunics. Joe Blunt and I spend about 6 months researching a project before even a snip of the fabric takes place. For my Field Grade DB frock with 3X rows of Braid it took 7 months just to find the right hanesworth fabric (thanks Greg Starbuck). See so again my point is this:

    -Do the research
    -take your time because a $600+ frock coat is just that and you don't get the opportuniy to sell on the AC if it doesn't look right
    -If you are going to do the position of a officer; get the right mentality, Drill education, officer(ship), and IMPRESSION!

    I applaud your efforts for trying to make this right. Joe is the expert on the sleeve braid as all of mine are out of this world spot-on to originals. If you have any questions ill be happy to help with officer kit/impressions.
    Skip Owens


    EMAIL:saltwaterboy01@gmail.com


    Southern Guard Living History Assn.
    http://www.southernguard.org


    The Company of Military Historians

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    TX
    Posts
    25

    Re: Pattern for Austrian knot on Sleeves?

    I found chalking the design the best way to go, as I could more easily correct errors.

    Last edited by rake; 10-25-2009 at 07:31 PM.
    Tommy Attaway

    Company of Military Historians, & etc.

    Knox-Corinthian #851, A. F. & A. M. of Texas

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