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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Auburn, CA
    Posts
    204

    Subdued rank placement question

    Gentlemen,

    After searching here and elsewhere I'm forced to ask the following question: do any of you have any original images or examples of the typical placement of subdued officer's rank? I have seen collar, shoulder, & chest, but I want to see as many original examples as possible. I've tried several ways to find them both here and elsewhere but am coming up empty handed. I'd appreciate any help as I need to make a decision asap.
    Joe Marti
    Bvt. Cpl., 20th Maine Vol. Inf. Co. G., ACWA
    Past Camp Commander, Phil Sheridan Camp 4, SUVCW
    Commander, 6th Military District, Sons of Veterans Reserve

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    McClure
    Posts
    81

    Re: Subdued rank placement question

    Joe,
    I do not recall where I found the photo, but I had one on file of an officer with a rank circlet on his hat. I'll see if I can find it.
    Andre Wagner
    *Private: 147th PVI
    *Lt. Colonel: Corps. of Topographic Engineers


    "He looked like an independent mounted newsboy."

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    204

    Re: Subdued rank placement question

    Joe,

    Wish I could help with "chapter and verse" but when I was first investigating, I found at least one example of an officer with a commercial sack with a collar folded down like a modern suit coat (as opposed to buttoned to the neck like an enlisted man's fatigue blouse). He had sewn his insignia on his collar. He was a captain. The thing I found interesting was the photo was an image of a court martial commission in the Army of the Potomac around the end of July, 1863. It's the earliest I've been able to document subdued rank worn in the Army of the Potomac.

    I look forward to seeing what others have to offer.

    Yours,

    Will
    Will Eichler

    Member, Company of Military Historians
    Saginaw City Light Infantry
    Hubbard Winsor Lodge #420
    Stoney Creek Lodge #5

    Historic Fort Wayne Coalition
    www.historicfortwaynecoalition.com

    150th Franklin LH - 44th Missouri
    150th Sailor's Creek - 121st New York

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    State of Mind
    Posts
    6,007

    Re: Subdued rank placement question

    Hallo!



    Curt
    In gleichem Schritt und Tritt, Curt Schmidt

    -Hard and sharp as flint...secret, and self-contained, and solitary as an oyster.
    -Haplogroup R1b M343 (Subclade R1b1a2 M269)
    -Pointless Folksy Wisdom Mess, Oblio Lodge #1
    -Vastly Ignorant

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    McClure
    Posts
    81

    Re: Subdued rank placement question

    Curt,you beat me to that photo, its in my archive also
    Andre Wagner
    *Private: 147th PVI
    *Lt. Colonel: Corps. of Topographic Engineers


    "He looked like an independent mounted newsboy."

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Baton Rouge, LA
    Posts
    101

    Re: Subdued rank placement question

    Here is a couple of photos that you have probably seen. A couple placed on collar and one with it on the front of the shoulders.

    Mike Pretus
    Attached Images Attached Images


    Semper Fidelis,
    Mike Pretus
    16th LA Inf

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Auburn, CA
    Posts
    204

    Re: Subdued rank placement question

    Quote Originally Posted by Will Eichler View Post
    I found at least one example of an officer with a commercial sack with a collar folded down like a modern suit coat (as opposed to buttoned to the neck like an enlisted man's fatigue blouse). He had sewn his insignia on his collar. He was a captain.
    Thanks for this. I think it's what I'm looking for exactly. If you have the picture it would be great to see it. Short of that, let me be a little more specific. I have a private purchase sack coat with a slightly wider collar (so as not to be confusing, there is no lapel). If I put it on the collar, does it matter whether I place it vertical, following the axis of the body for instance, or at a 45 degree angle like in modern examples?

    I realize that this was a variation from the SOP, so maybe the answer is to feel the freedom to just to go with whatever I intuitively want, as they might have then. But the absence of knowing what was actually done is having the opposite effect. I do not want to guess when it comes to this stuff, but I'm having very little luck finding primary sources (i.e. photos).

    I hope that clarifies my aims, and that it leads to oodles of pictures that I cannot seem to find. Thanks to those who have already responded. You've been a big help and I thank you.

    Respectfully,
    Joe Marti
    Bvt. Cpl., 20th Maine Vol. Inf. Co. G., ACWA
    Past Camp Commander, Phil Sheridan Camp 4, SUVCW
    Commander, 6th Military District, Sons of Veterans Reserve

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Auburn, CA
    Posts
    204

    Re: Subdued rank placement question

    Quote Originally Posted by LejeuneMarine View Post
    Here is a couple of photos that you have probably seen. A couple placed on collar and one with it on the front of the shoulders.

    Mike Pretus
    Hey, this is just the thing! I've never seen anything like the captain second from the right with the insignia on the front of the shoulder. I'll bet he's the only one you'll find like that. The leftmost captain as well is pretty interesting in the indifference to placement there seems to be. The leftmost captain's left bars look parallel to the ground, as they would be if on the shoulder. The right bars look like they're at more of an oblique angle. Maybe the collar is roughed up or something, but it is interesting to see.

    Thanks a lot and Semper Fi back to you.

    Respectfully,
    Joe Marti
    Bvt. Cpl., 20th Maine Vol. Inf. Co. G., ACWA
    Past Camp Commander, Phil Sheridan Camp 4, SUVCW
    Commander, 6th Military District, Sons of Veterans Reserve

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Bloomfield, Iowa
    Posts
    154

    Re: Subdued rank placement question

    Joe,
    For your study, here is an image of a young captain with the 5th Iowa Cavalry. I don't know the lad's name, but he's sporting the cut-down rank insignia. Image was struck in Nashville.
    Mark Warren
    Hairy Nation
    Bloomfield, Iowa
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Gooseberry Pie
    "The Official Dessert of the Hairy Nation Boys"

    Mark Warren
    Bloomfield, Iowa

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Starbucks
    Posts
    2,763

    Re: Subdued rank placement question

    A couple weeks ago, I noticed a photo of an officer with reduced rank, and I wish I recall the source. He was either a major or lieutenant colonel wearing shoulder boards. The odd thing about the boards was that gold boarders had either been cut before installation or the boards were produced without the gold boarder. Each was the usual long rectangle with a leaf at each end of the rectangle.

    This is a minimized rank alternative, but which conforms to the traditional shoulder placement.
    Mark Silas Tackitt,
    a moderator and member of THEM
    Click here for a link to forum rules - or don't.

    "Let's don't just make stuff up because we want to." - Terre Lawson, 30 January 2014

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