Why those long wide Bowie knives?

[Lance Stifle]

Has anyone thought about those long wide Bowie knives we often see being held up by Civil War soldiers on both sides when they were photographed?

Were they only photographers props?

Were they ever carried by the troops as an effective weapon on either side, at any time during the war?

Your considered thoughts please.

There may be an answer from a conflict on "the other side of the world".

Kim Stewart-Gray

"I am with the South in death, in victory or defeat...I never owned a Negro and care nothing for them,
but these people have been my friends and have stood up to me on all occasions."
Patrick Cleburne 1860.

[fahnenschmied]

Those big "Bowies", which look like part ships cutlass and part Roman sword were not just studio props. They were made in pretty good numbers at the outset of the war, and they were carried for a short while. (At least, till the first long march.) Yet I cannot tell you if they were ever effective weapons. Perhaps in some shipboard scuffle somewhere... They weren't just made in little blacsmith shops, but also in some private armouries - one not far from here in Keenansville, NC springs to mind. A lot of people THOUGHT they would be an effective weapon!
Pikes, too, were made in large numbers at the outset, but I couldn't tell you if they were ever effective weapons, on sea or on land during the conflict..

Dave Stone

[Andrew Kasmar]

They are not just a early war weapon, for there are originals and documentation linking large side knifes for the Red River and Franklin Campaigns of 1864. They have also been found at battlefields of 1865 in North Carolina. Not sure if this will help you with your original question, but it does indicate that they were used well after the opening year of the war. Thanks

All the best,

Andrew

[csabugler]

I don't have the document in front of me but something like 2 tenths of 1 percent of recorded wounds were inflicted by edged blades. That's 2 out of 1000, and all edged blades combined. That stat indicates knives were seldom used as a weapon. There have been several discussions here about the likelyhood that someone in a "mess" might carry a large knife as a tool, or maybe 1 among a few messes.
You can thank Hollywood for the image of civil war soldiers wrestling about on the ground with sticks and knives. Yes, it happened, but the frequency wouldn't seem to justify toting it.
I think if a fella ( I'm not implying you) spent a few hard weekends living out of the saddle or blanket roll, without the benefit of a cot in tent with a beer cooler and a clean set of clothes, he would join the thousands who discarded their big knives
My opinion, having been thru this many times.
And I concur about the photo props, you see all sorts of items with fellas to whom they would not be common.
Patrick Pete

[PetePaolillo]

Here are some sources for your perusal. Sources are always Good

http://books.google.com/books?id=YOm...age&q=&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=62U...age&q=&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=k9w...knives&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=IOy...knives&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=FhK...age&q=&f=false
"6th and 1th November.—The morning of the following day, to our great surprise, passed quietly, and we were enabled to take up our old line of defence at Waterloo Bridge, sending out scouts and patrols in the direction of the enemy. One of the latter was fortunate enough to capture and bring off a Yankee waggon, which gave us a good supply of Havana cigars, and contained, among other articles, a large number of fine bowie-knives. For a long time afterwards, each of us carried one of these knives in his belt, finding it extremely serviceable, not as an offensive weapon against the Yankees, but for the cutting of the very tough beef which, during the next month, formed the greater part of our rations. The bowieknife occupied a somewhat conspicuous place in the earlier annals of the war, and we were often told of Louisianians, Mississippians, and Texans who threw away their muskets in the hottest of the fight, and fell upon the enemy with their favourite weapon; but I have always regarded these stories in the same fabulous light with the stories of the bayonet conflicts to which I have before referred, and certainly I have never seen the bowie-knife put to any other than a purely pacific and innocent use."

http://books.google.com/books?id=K7L...age&q=&f=false

" Blacksmiths repaired ancient muskets and contrived deadly looking knives and sabers from farm implements and scraps of steel" pg 19

[JimKindred]

I don't have the document in front of me but something like 2 tenths of 1 percent of recorded wounds were inflicted by edged blades.

These type statistics come up quite often coming from documentation of wounds seen by medical personnel, what they leave out are the deaths caused by blades. These gentlemen were normally not carried back to the doctors for statistical research.

[Curt Schmidt]

Hallo!

Also a side discussion on the mortality of bayonet wounds on teh battlefield not making it back to the hospitals to "be counted."

While there is documentation for personal rather than photographer studio massive bowie knives such as camp photographs, accounts, and even battlefield pick-ups, IMHO they are a rare minority in the CW soldiers' experience (unless one had one).

However, as I am sure many a CW lad found out, the need for a meat cleaver to butcher an ox or a hand ax to build a log cabin was not worth the bulk and weight compared to "belt" sized "bowie" camp or hunting type knives better suited for fieldcraft and mess chores.
Meaning, IMHO, if more lads would not carry a massive bowie just for "jewelry," and actually had to use one for camp or mess chores, "we" would see more "folders" (pocket knives) and at best five or six inch bladed belt knives.

Others' mileage will vary...

Curt

(Remembering an N-SSA pard, Davey, who carried and used his Confederatre great-grandfather's Sheffield type bowie for his ramrod rest in competitions.)

[Hank Trent]

and at best five or six inch bladed belt knives.

That's a good point to keep in mind. A lot of the knives that they called a Bowie knife probably wouldn't be considered a Bowie knife by a lot of people today, so one needs to separate out the big D-handled broad-bladed Bowie knives from the little Sheffield bowie knives when researching things called Bowie knives in the period. It's usually possible to tell from context, but not always.

Hank Trent
hanktrent@gmail.com

[LibertyHallVols]

This is the A-C, folks. Documentation, please!

Got stats? Cite a source.
"Have been found..." By whom, when, and where?

Props to Pete P for actually quoting a referenced source!!!!

[Old Reb]

Bowie knife linky dinky
http://www.tshaonline.org/handbook/o...s/BB/lnb1.html