Where does THIS END of the hobby need to improve MOST?

[JimKindred]

Tone the personal attacks down, stay on topic please.

[robert-m]

While we all are trying for the same common goals and general ideals. We all want to be used in someway or fashion. I am willing to bet that once we all suck it up and let somethings go (all hand sewn clothing) for the sake of somethings and the better of others (people breaking first person). The hobby it's self will grow.

In my Mainstream unit there are SEVEN of us that do a lot of C/P/H stuff. BUT GUESS what? It all started with ONE person taking the time to talk to some of the guys in the unit. And now there are seven of us that belong and participate highly within the AC community. And we seven have made an impact through just the mere act of listening and talking to the others within the unit. Now they're wanting to get into this side of the hobby more. Some of them are able to go all out and do a full EFUBU events and some are not. BUT the authenticity of the unit as a whole has risen.

There will be a new world that we as an AC forum can dream of if we all take some time and go to the local Mainstream events and help some of those guys. IT WORKS. So what if everything isn't all hand sewn. They had machine sewn stuff. The greatest thing that all men can dream of is making the hobby BIGGER. But IF the people that just sit back and think or say "F*** that they are farbs, I'm not gonna try to help them" or " he will never make it at an EFUBU, so why bother". THESE are the people that are making our side look and seem like the dill holes that most mainstream guys think of when they hear campaigners are going to be at an event.

I guess it all boils down to communication of some sort. Sorry if it sounds like I'm preaching

[Hardtack Herring]

I am not sure how to reply with quotes but I wish to quote Mr. Melville who's post is directly above my mine.

"In my Mainstream unit there are SEVEN of us that do a lot of C/P/H stuff. BUT GUESS what? It all started with ONE person taking the time to talk to some of the guys in the unit."

My response....How true this is. I saw this happen with my old unit well over 20 years ago.

Another quote from Mr. Melville

"There will be a new world that we as an AC forum can dream of if we all take some time and go to the local Mainstream events and help some of those guys."

My response....I agree with this 100%. I have met plenty of people on the other side of the hobby who have told me straight up they would like to be more authentic but do not know how or do not know of a more authentic unit to join. This is largely do to the fact that c/p/h units do not attend these events, or if they do they spend all weekend hiding in the woods.

[GrumpyDave]

Ergo, in order to get folks to attend more authentic events, it would be better to fall in with "mainstream" units at "mainstream" events than to form adjuncts to said events and ignore folks who could become converts?

[OldKingCrow]

I have met plenty of people on the other side of the hobby who have told me straight up they would like to be more authentic but do not know how or do not know of a more authentic unit to join. This is largely do to the fact that c/p/h units do not attend these events, or if they do they spend all weekend hiding in the woods.

This is a research and discovery based community (the entire hobby should be). A majority of which is imbued with dogged determination and self-motivated commitment to accuracy in minutia, combined with high levels of creativity. In 2010, with the strides in material accuracy improvement in the 'Stream, instant availability of net resources / information and the ever increasing popularity of the adjunct du jour to pret near every mainstream event, one might have to question the suitability of such stock to meet the standards on the long haul before it even leaves the stockyard.

Mid-19th Century life demanded self-starters and the hyper-accurate portrayal thereof requires much of the same.

CJ Rideout
Tampa, Florida

[Tom Craig]

I dunno. Whatever is happening right now in this end of the hobby, I think, is working. It's on an upswing. Lots of improvement needed, of course, but it's headed in the right direction. It's better than it's ever been.

I can see where Hank is coming from with this comment, especially based on his earlier comments about the Backwaters event, but I have to respectfully disagree. I think that there has been hobby improvement, but it has been in pockets. I do most of my reenacting in the Mid-Atlantic region and I would argue that things in my neck of the woods have been on a backslide for a few years. I would also argue that the large number of people on this thread advocating drill as the most essential thing to improve our hobby is indicative of a similar backsliding, or perhaps missing the point.

In the east I think that our side of things hit a climax around 2003-2005. I saw people pushing the envelope, trying event ideas, and impressions that I had never seen before, and doing some real innovation. From Charles Heath's honest to god salt-pork at the 2nd Bull Run living history to the CR living history event at Antietam (which was one of the best events I've ever attended). Even to the guys I saw modifying their coats to add pockets or experimenting with wearing their gear in different documented ways, to the hospital scenario from the first Burkittsville event.

In the east I never saw great progress made in the man part of the "triad" and that is where the progression stopped. From 2005 on there have been less events in the east, and the people at those events seem to have slid back to a 2000-2001 level of "getting it right." Drill and basic kit are certainly important. But I don't see people running events that encourage folks to ramp up their impressions out here, and I don't see participants going the extra mile to make the envelope pushing happen.

What do we need to do to fix it? That's a tough nut to crack. We need leadership of guys who know their history, and can have ah ha moments that lead us all to improvement. We need people to put on events that move the ball forward in meaningful ways (like the civilian participation at Bummers, or the Westville event). And we each need to do as much reading and research as possible and bring our A games to the table. Because this hobby is a collective experience I would also argue that we need some more cohesion among small groups and cooperation because being a military hobby, it's no fun to reenact by yourself.

Take care,
Tom Craig

[PogueMahone]

Hot damn! I've been waiting for this thread!

I agree that we all need more education on the times and material culture and discussions of depot variants and kewl klothes aren't for the field. We are all guilty on both counts.

I agree that we need more drill on a regular basis. And during that drill, we need fewer experts in the ranks trying to tell the NCOs and officers their jobs.

I think there is merit in the discussion about improving organizations at the platoon level. However, I recall the reason that events started using individual registrations was to avoid registering entire units where 4 or 5 had the required kits and 3 or 4 did not. It puts the event in the position of declining half a unit from participation at the gate and strong units stand solid and quit an event together, so you lose the 5 good guys when you kick back the 4 bad. Until you find a way to avoid that, events will still have individual registration.

Now, the thing that has done more to make me less interested in recent events is ... the events themselves. Why must every event involve a skirmish? Why must every skirmish devolve into cowboys and indians? These so-called "battles" become platoon-sized flanking manuevers, defensive positions are stick forts or a single file of men strung across a rise completely exposed. There is nothing realistic about it. The officers in command try to win the battle by defending their flanks until there is no more middle. I once heard a battalion commander tell a company commander to "send one platoon to this flank, one platoon to that flank and hold one platoon in reserve!" The company commander had to point out that he only had two platoons and before the battalion commander could understand the conceptual error he'd made, he reversed all his commands and gave new ones! It was ridiculous.

I'd rather not have the battles than to have these pathetic little powder-burning episodes. I'd like to see an event where the only shots fired were those to clear the muskets at the end of the event. Why can't we spend a weekend in the woods just watching the enemy across a field? Or just marching toward a common destination along seperate routes?

[Hank Trent]

Well, then, here's a question. What is "this end" of the hobby? Is it reenactors at mainstream events who want to be more accurate but never want to attend anything other than mainstream events? Is it the people I see at history-heavy events from New York to Louisiana to Missouri to Georgia who are trying to push the envelope of reenacting as a whole? Is it the cutting edge in each person's local region, at whatever level of accuracy that is? To me, it would be the second one mostly, because that's what will actually impact my own experience in the hobby, and that's what I'm here for--to have a good experience at events. It would also be the third one somewhat, but I'd rather attend fewer events farther away that were "better," than more events locally that were "worse," even if they were better than they used to be.

And then, there's the question: what's improvement? I was thinking it referred to reenactors' actual experiences at events, so I couldn't figure out why people were suggesting public-relations kind of things. But I just realized that's also "improvement"--they're saying the priority for this end of the hobby should be to improve its public relations with other reenactors, rather than the members' own experiences. I dunno, to me there are other priorities, and I don't really owe anything to people who won't eventually reciprocate by adding something back to this end of the hobby (see my definition of that above), but I can see now that that's also a different viewpoint about what needs improved most.

Hank Trent
hanktrent@gmail.com

[OldKingCrow]

Well, then, here's a question. What is "this end" of the hobby? Hank Trent
hanktrent@gmail.com

For me this end of the hobby is broad spectrum but has as its foundation: a good faith commitment to use primary historical research as the basis for everything.

I think you can be a productive, contrubuting member on this end of the hobby but forge your own historically representative trail outside of the events which are intended for particpants at an elite level. My ego is not brusied, nor do I feel less of a person / historian to recognize I can not produce an accomplished Trentian impression or historically representative ones such as these:



In fact, I am stoked to see such focus and accomplishment. So much that I driven to spectate events to experience such impressions in historical settings. I have also been very appreciative and made the most out of the priviledge in being invited / included at events within my lane by various leaders here.

But I have and still do some pretty amazing things within my own spehere of influence and cadre of like-minded pards. I am confident to say outside of physical shortcomings, my history heaviness is as heavy as the next guy's and perhaps heavier than many.

CJ Rideout
Tampa, Florida

[john duffer]

" I'd like to see an event where the only shots fired were those to clear the muskets at the end of the event. Why can't we spend a weekend in the woods just watching the enemy across a field? Or just marching toward a common destination along seperate routes? "

I agree Joe but not everyone else does. After my "A Routine Patrol" event I had a gentleman literally curse me out in the parking lot because he didn't see an enemy or fire a shot all weekend. (most routine patrols apparently incured 50% casualties) and at the officer's meeting at Rich Mountain the Fate Cards nearly started a small riot because folks didn't come all that way to fire one or two shots and get hit. No doubt the original gentlemen felt the same way. You're talking about the upper end of the upper end.

On a side note, I haven't done anything in a couple of years but I doubt things have changed all that much. I believe the stitch counting farb bullying hardcore is greatly exaggerated. I think this comes from a hand-full of hardkewls at mainstream events and one or two folks on the Internet. This is probably the single most given excuse for not attending EBUFU events but I've never seen anyone turned away at a good event, except for those not registered and trying to crash, regardless of kit. Two items I see/hear lately that could be improved are more realistic US/CS ratios and a more realistic officer/enlisted ratio.