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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
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    Vancouver Island
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    22

    Austrian 1842 Cavalry Carbine

    Me again asking for you assistance. I am looking at this Austrian 1842 Cavalry Carbine. I believe the nose cap isn't original to the rifle, who can say after all these years. Any thoughts, ideas or suggestion greatly appreciated. These are not my photos, borrowed from seller.

    The owner wrote:

    "OK, so I picked up this antique from the States, and it is definitely . . . different. It appears to be a cavalry weapon of some sort, as the side plate has 2 saddle-rings attached to it, and they definitely appear original. The cheekpiece has a distinctive Germanic feel to it. The barrel is a scant 14.5" long, and the overall length of the gun is 29.5", and the weight is probably around 5.5 - 6 pounds. Ready for this? The caliber is .75, rifled with 12 lands and grooves, and the bore is quite shootable."









    Kevin Grant

    During the American Civil War thousands of Canadians answered the American call to arms. Figures vary from 30,000 to 55,000 Canadians fought for both sides. With fatal casualty averaging one in five, as many as 11,000 died and with one in seven wounded up to 8,000 wounded. There were 19 Medals of Honor won by Canadians.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    165

    Re: Austrian 1842 Cavalry Carbine

    From the ones that I have personally owned and ones I have seen - this is not the correct nose piece for this gun - nor is it the correct ramrod for any I have seen. Do an internet search for M1842 Austrian Carbines and you will see those. I tried to find one in my archives, but have yet to find it.

    John Walsh

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    165

    Re: Austrian 1842 Cavalry Carbine


  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Montgomery, Illinois
    Posts
    109

    Re: Austrian 1842 Cavalry Carbine

    Hello,

    The metal looks as though it was Bead-blasted. These are commonly known as Frühwirths. See this link.

    Cheers.
    Michael Collins

    http://www.authentic-campaigner.com/...rate-Musketoon
    Last edited by Illinois Rebel; 02-07-2011 at 07:57 PM.
    Michael S. Collins

    15th Tenn. Vol. Inf. Co "G"
    Robert L. Miller Award Recipient No.26 May, 2003

    "Trust in God and Fear Nothing."
    - Brig. General Lewis Addison Armistead

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Vancouver Island
    Posts
    22

    Re: Austrian 1842 Cavalry Carbine

    Like I thought everything but the nosecap looks good. It does have an impressive bore8-)
    Kevin Grant

    During the American Civil War thousands of Canadians answered the American call to arms. Figures vary from 30,000 to 55,000 Canadians fought for both sides. With fatal casualty averaging one in five, as many as 11,000 died and with one in seven wounded up to 8,000 wounded. There were 19 Medals of Honor won by Canadians.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Fairfax
    Posts
    22

    Re: Austrian 1842 Cavalry Carbine

    CPL Parker:

    Your carbine started life as an Austro-Hungarian (K.u.K.) Army Muster 1851 Kavalleriekarabiner (Cavalry carbine). The M 1851s came in two visually similar types. The only difference was in the barrels: one was smoothbore; and the other was rifled with the .71 caliber, 12 land and groove rifling shown in your photographs. All of the M 1851 carbines were originally manufactured as Augustin System tubelocks.

    When the carbines were convered from tubelock to caplock, four conversion systems were used. The K.u.K Army re-breeched them with a forged breach section (Prussian breech) that had a snail on the right side of the barrel. The K.u.K. Army may have also re-breeched some with a Prussian breech that had a cone/nipple seat on the top right of the barrel. Those converted in Liege, Belgium, were converted by brazing a lump of metal on the top right of the barrel and drilling and tapping it for the cone seat. Lastly, someone converted some barrels by threading the Augustin System tubelock touch hole and screwing a snail into the right side of the barrel and brazing it in place. It appears that your carbine was originally one of those later conversions. However, that snail has been removed, and appears to have been replaced with a more modern drum conversion. I would seriously question the safety of this conversion.

    The barrel band is not like those used by the K.u.K Army on the M 1851 carbines. They used a simple iron barrel band which was drilled for a screw at the bottom. They definitely did not use the type of brass band on yours.

    In K.u.K. Army service, the carbines were not drilled for ramrods. Instead, the ramrods were carried on the trooper's breast strap. The 10,000 carbines imported by the Federal Army were drilled by the importers for ramrods. They didn't use the original Austrian ramrods. So, one sees a melange of ramrods on the drilled carbines. The one on yours appears to be a modern reproduction. It definitely is not from an Austrian gun of the period.

    Hope this helps.

    Don Dixon
    Last edited by Don Dixon; 02-10-2011 at 06:41 PM.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
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    State of Mind
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    6,059

    Re: Austrian 1842 Cavalry Carbine

    Hallo!

    What I need is trapped in a dead hard-drive...

    But, I want to say it is either a Belgian clone, or possibly a Swiss canton clone of the Austrian M1842 carbine.

    The ramrod itself is a replacement somewhere in time. But the subject of a ramrod hole is controversial. Meaning, numbers of them show up with ramrod holes and ramrods even though the orignal Austrian M1842 carbine did not have that feature.
    Some argue, and maybe rightfully so, the the ramrods were retro-fitted, and some historians and collectors like to boost the value of these by saying that ramrods were added to the arms bought by US and CW agents- making them CW pieces.

    Curt
    In gleichem Schritt und Tritt, Curt Schmidt

    -Hard and sharp as flint...secret, and self-contained, and solitary as an oyster.
    -Haplogroup R1b M343 (Subclade R1b1a2 M269)
    -Pointless Folksy Wisdom Mess, Oblio Lodge #1
    -Vastly Ignorant

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    165

    Re: Austrian 1842 Cavalry Carbine

    I have seen atleast one image of two cavalrymen standing next to each other, each holding one of these carbines with no ramrods. There will be more information on this issue coming soon.

    John Walsh


    Quote Originally Posted by Curt-Heinrich Schmidt View Post
    Hallo!
    Some argue, and maybe rightfully so, the the ramrods were retro-fitted, and some historians and collectors like to boost the value of these by saying that ramrods were added to the arms bought by US and CW agents- making them CW pieces.

    Curt

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Vancouver Island
    Posts
    22

    Re: Austrian 1842 Cavalry Carbine

    Great stuff guys, thanks again.
    Kevin
    Kevin Grant

    During the American Civil War thousands of Canadians answered the American call to arms. Figures vary from 30,000 to 55,000 Canadians fought for both sides. With fatal casualty averaging one in five, as many as 11,000 died and with one in seven wounded up to 8,000 wounded. There were 19 Medals of Honor won by Canadians.

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