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View Poll Results: What was the most proper arm for a mid-war North Carolina Infantryman in Pettigrew's/Pender's/Scale'

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  • Pattern 1853 Enfield Rifled Musket

    44 53.01%
  • Springfield M1842 Smoothbore Musket

    11 13.25%
  • Springfield M1855 Rifled Musket (Either Type or Rifle)

    1 1.20%
  • "Richmond" Confederate M1862 Rifled Musket

    7 8.43%
  • Springfield M1861 Rifled Musket

    8 9.64%
  • Springfield M1863 Rifled Musket

    0 0%
  • Harper's Ferry M1841 Rifle (Mississippi) .54 Cal

    1 1.20%
  • Harper's Ferry M1841/55 Rifle (Mississippi) .58 Cal

    1 1.20%
  • Austrian M1854 Lorenz Rifled Musket

    3 3.61%
  • Springfield M1816/22 Percussion Conversion

    4 4.82%
  • Springfield M1835/40 Percussion Conversion

    3 3.61%
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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
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    State of Mind
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    5,634

    Re: Correct North Carolina Infantryman Arms

    Hallo!

    In the earlier years of the War, it was not unusual, both US and CS, for the old concept of the two "flank companies" (once a light infantry and a grenadier comapny out of the ten in a regiment now skirmish compamnies) to be rifle-armed while the remaining eight companies were musket armed. Obviously as rifle-muskets gain ascendancy in numbers, "anyone" could be a skirmisher).

    Here are a few NC quckies...

    Some of the first "Enfield" issuances to NC lads was the 33rd, their gettign them just before the March 14, 1862 New Berne fight. Later, the Palmettoe Sharpshooters were armed with Enfields (described as "long range guns" annoyed the Federal artillery during the Penninsula.

    And the 45th NC at Kingston NC in March of 1863 it was remarked they had "Minie" rifles by the sound of the whistling bullets, which later turned up 15 Enfields from their abandoned camp.

    It is interesting to look at the "in fighting" for Enfields, especially during the first of the blockade runners with the purchases made by CS agents in Europe like Huse. Such as with the first run in September 1861 on board the "Bermuda" running into Savannah. Or the second on the "Fingal" reloaded to the CS "Nashville" in Bermuda for Savannah.
    One of the reasons for the "weird" CS markings on Enfields was to determine what belonged to who, and who had bought what, or had deals from the blockade runner owners for the crates. Especially with the CS system that often times pitted the central government against the individual states.

    For example, the "BErmuda" shipment was mad eup of about 3500 Enfield and Austrian rifles. 1700 were owned by private likley CS state agents for their states. CSA Sec.of War Judah Benjamin had learned he had to "negotiate" with the private owners for the 1700, AND that Georgia Brig. General Lawton at SAvannah had claimed 3000 for Georgia troops.
    Lawton gave in, a bit, and returned all but 1000. Teh next day, General Albert Johnston in KY asked for a smany as he could get, 30,000. President Davis explained that there were only 3500, and that 1800 went to the CSA (1700 purchased from the private owners), and that 1500 were going to Richmond for unnamed trops, and that the remaining 1000 would be shipped to Johnston at Nashville.

    Or..., the "Colletis" to the "Fingal" to the "Nashville" shipment of 9620 Enfields. 7520 were owned by the CS War Department, 1100 by the state of Georgia, and 1000 by the state of Louisiana. Johnston still needed guns, and Benjamin had told him before the arrival of teh "Fingal" in Bermuda he was getting 10,000. But Johnston and Robert E. Lee had to divide hth government's portion so GEorgia's 1100 portion went to arming units in the East- largely teh 3rd GA. But Lee dispersed his 3760 (half of 7520) with 2500 going to three South CArolina regiments. Georgia Governor then divided is portion between the 30th and the 33rd GA.

    A similar thign happeend with the third batch, on the "Gladiator..."

    Anyways, my point is that "ownership" and "issuance" gets muddied and we should not necessarily always look to Enfields being off-loaded and always ending up belonging to, and getting issued to, the "local troops" based on what port the ship arrived in.

    Curt
    In gleichem Schritt und Tritt, Curt Schmidt

    -Hard and sharp as flint...secret, and self-contained, and solitary as an oyster.
    -Haplogroup R1b M343 (Subclade R1b1a2 M269)
    -Pointless Folksy Wisdom Troll Mess, Oblio Lodge #1

  2. #22
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Mississippi
    Posts
    494

    Re: Correct North Carolina Infantryman Arms

    Curt,

    It seems some of those arms meant for Georgia went to the 24th Mississippi Infantry.

    http://ebooks.library.cornell.edu/cg...q=358&size=100


    And getting back to North Carolina units, in the CSR of Col. R.C. Hill of the 48th North Carolina is the initial ordnance issue for the regiment, which consisted of 220 Enfield Rifles and 325 "British Muskets, Complete" these British Muskets were issued with .69 caliber ammunition.

    Will MacDonald

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Between, Georgia
    Posts
    7

    Re: Correct North Carolina Infantryman Arms

    Hey look at the 2 banded weapons in the return!!!

    Rifle Musket cal 58,
    Rifle Muskets cal 58
    Rifles cal 58
    Smooth Bore Muskets cal 69,
    Smooth Bore Muskets, cal 69
    Capt. Ken Bridgers
    AFB/ 3rd Tennessee/ 66th Georgia

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    27 miles from FARB heaven, Goofysburg
    Posts
    499

    Re: Correct North Carolina Infantryman Arms

    Have you looked to see if there's any record of what was in the State Armory(s) when the war broke out? Might help, might not. IMHO, the P53 is your best bet followed by a cone in conversion or a '42. Just sayin'.
    "Grumpy" Dave Towsen
    Two things are not allowed here on the AC forum:
    Common sense and Common knowledge.
    The keyboard campaigners like neither.
    Be sure to post provenance.
    Past President Potomac Legion
    Long time member Columbia Rifles:
    http://www.columbiarifles.org/

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    State of Mind
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    5,634

    Re: Correct North Carolina Infantryman Arms

    Hallo!

    In the Ordnance Department survey of arms, report to the Sec. of War dated November 12, 1859:



    Curt
    In gleichem Schritt und Tritt, Curt Schmidt

    -Hard and sharp as flint...secret, and self-contained, and solitary as an oyster.
    -Haplogroup R1b M343 (Subclade R1b1a2 M269)
    -Pointless Folksy Wisdom Troll Mess, Oblio Lodge #1

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    New Mexico
    Posts
    271

    Re: Correct North Carolina Infantryman Arms

    I'm liking the 1,685 "Made As Percussion Rifles Cal .54" Fayetteville rifles stored in NC. Also, over 4,800 conversions and 2,800 made as percussion .69s, which I would assume would be M1842s. But that is still only around 10,000 muskets of any configuration to arm upwards of 25-30 NCV regiments through mid-1861.....though they probably would have had access to some of the 18,000+ muskets stored at Harper's Ferry. But then again so would the Virginia boys.

    This is good stuff for early war toting, as an 1816/22 conversion is what I carry for that period. But for a mid to late-war? I still lean towards the M1842 but more especially the Enfield, as Wilmington was a busy blockade running port that would have picked up a great deal of slack and I'm sure Governor Vance would ensure they got into Tarheel hands.

    Curt - any suggestions on where to look for that kind of documentation?

    Thx.
    Rich
    R. Libicer
    Fugi's Brown Water Mess

    6th North Carolina - 150th First Manassas, July 2011
    4th Texas Dismounted, Co. C - 150th Valverde, February 2012
    6th Mississippi Adjunct - 150th Shiloh, April 2012
    4th Texas Dismounted, Co. C - 150th Glorieta Pass, May 2012
    21st Arkansas Adjunct - 150th Prairie Grove, December 2012


  7. #27
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Hendersonville, N.C.
    Posts
    592

    Re: Correct North Carolina Infantryman Arms

    Rich: be clear that those returns Herr Schmidt just posted don't include "Fayetteville rifles". They're rifles stored at the Fayetteville facitily, likely a mix of M.1817 (I've seen several marked "N.C.") and M.1841. Let me refer you again to the small book "Ready Aim Fire: Small Arms Ammunition in the Battle of Gettysburg", which is available through Amazon, for mid-war Tar Heel eastern army weaponry. It details bullets found in specific locations on the battlefield in relation to units occupying that area. Gettysburg is as "mid-war" as one can get.
    David Fox

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    New Mexico
    Posts
    271

    Re: Correct North Carolina Infantryman Arms

    I see what you mean, David. Thanks. I will get on Amazon this weekend to see if I can find a copy of that book.

    Keep your powder dry.
    Rich
    R. Libicer
    Fugi's Brown Water Mess

    6th North Carolina - 150th First Manassas, July 2011
    4th Texas Dismounted, Co. C - 150th Valverde, February 2012
    6th Mississippi Adjunct - 150th Shiloh, April 2012
    4th Texas Dismounted, Co. C - 150th Glorieta Pass, May 2012
    21st Arkansas Adjunct - 150th Prairie Grove, December 2012


  9. #29
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Jamestown, NC
    Posts
    680

    Re: Correct North Carolina Infantryman Arms

    Bob Williams
    26th North Carolina Infantry
    http://www.26nc.org/
    AAIG, Carolina Legion

    As [one of our cavalry] passed by, the general halted him and inquired "what part of the army he belonged to." "I don't belong to the army, I belong to the cavalry." "That's a fact," says [the general], "you can pass on." Silas Grisamore, 18th Louisiana

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