Raymond 2012

**ButtermilkRanger** · 12-14-2011, 09:53 AM

I haven't seen it make any of the message boards, but the rumor I heard was that one of the mainstream alliances was pushing the Vicksburg Campaign, in Raymond MS, as its national event for 2012. I've also heard that it will be a campaign event more in line with the first Raymond from the late '90s and not the second one a couple years later. I know it will be mainstream and I know it is only a couple of weekends after Perryville, but Raymond is sort of a soft spot for some of us. It was where the Buttermilk Rangers as a unit was conceived and the first time we rode side by side with what would soon become the Critter Co., all under the command of the 7th TN.

***wavey1us*** · 12-14-2011, 01:53 PM

You think they could rule out a shooting this time?

**Mike Ventura** · 12-15-2011, 12:52 AM

Bill beat me to the obvious punch line.

***wavey1us*** · 12-15-2011, 10:11 AM

It looks like it will be in Oct 2012. I attended Raymond 1998 and was not that impressed with some of the command staff and excessive movements they placed man and beast through prior to any of the scenarios starting. Not to mention the lasck of water for equine was a major drawback.

***Choatecav*** · 12-15-2011, 11:14 AM

Larry,

Those are more good memories that you are conjuring up there. I remember that first Raymond (maybe "97) was really hot (not as bad as Manassas this year, but hot) but had a great time!

I have been rubbing my forehead about the Raymond event (and others) as we have a glut of good events that are hitting right in that same timeframe. In late 2012, within a month or so of one another, we have: 1) Perryville, 2) Westville, GA. 3) Unison, Va and 4) Raymond. It seems like it is feast or famine.

I realize that some are closer to certain events than others, but it always is a dilemma as to how we can execute one of the basic tenants of cavalry warfare and "bring the most to bear at the same place and time" and not divide our forces. I suppose that it is good to have representation of the authentic side of the mounted impression at a lot of places, but we are so few in number (relative to other branches) and it would be so good for us to do some of these adjuncts and EFUBU events en masse. Oh well.................guess I can dream.

We will see.

thanks,
Mark

**Mike Ventura** · 12-15-2011, 12:35 PM

My problem with Raymond is the way that they handled the shooting and the so-called investigation surrounding it. At the time, and even today, it seemed as if they just swept it under the rug because they didn't want negative publicity. I'm not sure that I want to attend an event if those same people are running it.

**ButtermilkRanger** · 12-15-2011, 06:02 PM

Mike,

You're getting the second Raymond confused with the first. The second Raymond, where we had a ad hoc authentic cav unit with us and you guys, didn't hold a candle to the first, in my opinion. The first, though fully mainstream from beginning to end, was a good hard-riding campaign event that covered a lot of ground. I liked hanging out with you guys at the second Raymond, but the event as a whole wasn't much to remember. I seem to remember some horrendous Federal cav impressions from Terry's Texas Rangers and some F&I era-looking Indians running around for some reason.

As for the heat or lack of water from the first Raymond, I don't remember it being an issue for us. This is where we live and the heat was just a normal day at the office for us. Certainly nothing out of the ordinary. I like having a feast of famine range of events to choose from, but so far, everything I'd planned to do in the spring is coming up bad for me, so I'm having to think about the Fall. Perryville is a maybe at best because of the distance, Virginia is out, and I don't know anything about the Westville event. Raymond is only an hour and a half away, so as mainstream events go, it's a good fit for me.

***Ken Knopp*** · 12-15-2011, 10:31 PM

Notwithstanding the aberration of the shooting incident, which is in my opinion, irrelevant in any discussion of future events there, I will agree that the Raymond's in the past have been good. What perplexes me about this one is the timing. Their advertisements call it the anniversary of the 150'ths yet it takes place in the corresponding year of 1862 and not 1863 when the battles (Raymond, Champion Hill and Vicksburg) actually occurred. Moreover, it has poor timing. They claim to have scheduled October 2012 so as to take advantage of the favorable fall weather in Mississippi (OK, I agree) but also to avoid other national events and yet, it comes right on the heels of Perryville - a huge 150th national event that is centrally located and with a very long and excellent track record. I understand wanting to avoid Chancellorsville 2013 (May), Gettysburg 2013 (July) and Chickamauga 2013 (Sept). OK, I can understand the reasoning but is it faulty reasoning?
Given the economy it is very hard for westerners to go east and easterners to go west. Some will but most will not. If they do, it will be for perhaps, one event that year and for most, perhaps one event over the entire 150th cycle! So, I have to ask the obvious. Since they are going to miss out on easterner's coming west anyway, what’s wrong with having Raymond in the spring of 2013? Say, perhaps April or May (when Mississippi weather is quite good) and, it just so happens to fall right on their 150th anniversary dates? Or this question?... Where else can one congregate the western reenactors for a national event in the spring of 2013 (1863)? Answer: Nowhere. My point is, I think, sadly, they are making a huge error in the choice of dates. It will most certainly compete in the fall of 2012 for the western reeanctor’s limited resources of money and vacation time (not to mention the wife’s “kitchen pass”) with other great events (Perryville in particular) and will, as a result, not be the grand size national event that they hope for. And that, is just simply sad.
What is even more distressing is that as I purview all of the 150th’s scheduled over the next two years I see conflicts everywhere! This kind of short sighted planning and dare I say politics is counterproductive, wasteful and destructive to everything we are trying to do in this hobby. But, oh well. That’s life.
Am I missing something here?

Ken R Knopp

**ButtermilkRanger** · 12-16-2011, 08:53 AM

I agree completely Ken and I have the same questions/concerns. They have the opportunity to recreate a good mainstream campaign if they follow the script from the first one back in '97 (and avoid the problems of '99 or '01 or whatever year it was), but they'll fumble it I'm sure. The rumor I heard was that they didn't want to do it in '13 because it would conflict with Gettysburg and Chickamauga. I'll take a wait and see attitude, but since it's just down the road, I'll try to be there regardless. Maybe I'll get lucky. Even a blind hog finds an acorn every once in a while.