picture of the 3rd Indiana Cavalry from Petersburg

[Cumpston1862]

All points raised are certainly plausible. The possibility of the jackets being some kind of state issued jackets is possible but not likely in 1864. Perhaps they field modified their regulation issued jackets based on their favored early war state jackets?

Just to stir the pot a bit...and sorry I am not good with links or attachments but if you do a search of the book "A Damned Iowa Greyhound" about William Henry Harrison Clayton from the 19th Iowa Infantry look at the picture on the cover. He is wearing a regulation issued frock coat and it has a low collar too. I can't remember now but I believe that picture is after his release from Camp Ford, Texas in 1864. Maybe that is a field modification or some kind of private purchase.

[Choatecav]

David,

You have really given us a treat with this tread and these photos. What classic examples of Fed cavalrymen from the mid-west. I cannot add anything more to the good commentary that has been given thus far, but I have been zooming in and looking at these in detail. Superb!

On a related note, would you or the others have any photos of the 4th Iowa cav, perchance? We are portraying them at Westville "Surrender of Seccession" and I would love to see some. Did a search but did not find anything. Oh, and the later in the war the better.

thanks,

Mark

[kaelin]

I hate to do this, its one of my pet peeves, can't resist...
I am at work and the information is not in front of me...but a group of us have studied Indiana uniforms in certain areas in great detail and other areas loosely. Indiana did in fact have "unique jackets". They were of a zouave pattern much like what you see here in this image. The jackets unique style was in the short collar or collarless, west point pattern body (4 or 6), D shaped sleeve allowing for full range of motion and use of the arms, 10 or 12 button front. These jackets were voted on by each individual regiment and paid for out of their monthly pay, average costs were $6-7 each privately made. The dates on these jackets range from late 63 all the way through the end of the war. It is very common to find that these jackets were received after their furlough(63), some call them "veteran jackets" to set them apart from the fresh fish.

Notice in the image, 2 of the jackets are 10 button, 1 is 12 button. Soldier sitting bottom left corner is wearing a MSJ.

[rbruno]

Man, I could stare at this picture all day. Can anyone tell what kind of sabre the officer is carrying? It has a different basket shape then the 1860/1840 sabre and looks like the metal starts to go down the back of the handle below the cap and not just a plain cap like the '60/'40 sabre. Also it has the little curve piece where the issue sabre is just flat piece at the hilt. I wish I knew my saber parts names better, but just check out the basket and you can see. Also looks a little straighter in the blade then the curve of the US sabres. Is it French or British import? Also, the officer is maybe wearing shoes where all the troopers are in boots. You can see the laces just below his pants. So many things to check out.

[Utley]

In the first pic posted, the guy standing at the top left has a "CS" belt plate on..... I may not be the first who has noticed this, but wanted to mention it.

[James A. Page]

I think a closer examination of the first image will show that this Trooper is wearing a two-piece US belt buckle, not a CS two-piece. Nice image.

[Ken Knopp]

In reply to Mark Choate.....

The attached is a photo of Cpl Jacob Gantz, 4th Iowa Cav. From Gantz's diary (1863-1865) I find that he had his photo taken "at least" three times during the war. For certain, once at Helena Ark in early 1863 and another time in Memphis in Jan. 1865- perhaps more at other times in the war. From this photo it appears Gantz is adorned with, what appears to be, a new set of clothes and accoutrements. Perhaps, this is one of his earlier compositions? At any rate, not likely the coat nor condition of what one would expect to find on him in Georgia at the end of Wilson's Raid. Since we do not know when this was taken once can only speculate on its time period and thus its relevance to our usage for Westville. In short, it is curious but of little real value.

Ken R Knopp

[Choatecav]

Thank you, Ken.

As you said and as the photo tends to suggest, everything here looks "squeaky clean" and new. I would say that by the end of the war and as reconstruction began to descend upon the south, his appearance was probably considerably different.

thanks for posting this.

Mark

[GAR]

Ken, I disagree as I see much value in that picture.
Mark, we know Ken's picture is a studio portrait, and I'm pretty sure more often than not, new uniforms were worn or older uniforms were cleaned and pressed, and sabers and boots were polished for such an important occasion. Having a portrait made wasn't exactly cheap, and most wanted to look their best as this image is what their family would have to remember them by, should they fall.
By the faint, just visible sleeve trim, it looks to me that Gantz is wearing a msj, but the collar is almost completely obscured by his beard. My eyes may be playing tricks, but I can almost make out the vertical trim next to the buttons. Also it is interesting to note that he holds what appears to be a Hardee hat, while a forage cap is also present on the table. If it's not a studio prop, then is it possible that Gantz brought both along and then decided on wearing neither? If a trooper owned both a hat and a cap, then it was very likely this was taken early in the war, before one or the other was lost or damaged. That, along with the fact that Gantz doesn't appear to have achieved his corporal rank yet, unless the folds in his sleeves are concealing stripes.

[GAR]

Does anyone else think it odd that the presumably yellow tape is light colored in the image whereas yellow usually shows up dark and hard to see in period photographic emulsions?

Paul, in the second picture, did you notice the difference in the shades between the trouser stripe and the sleeve trim? They are very close to each other for a comparison.

David- great photo, thanks for sharing it.
Since it appears to be a hodge podge of uniform styles, especially buckles, perhaps the quartermaster was running low and issued whatever he could scrounge up just to try and fill the requisition order? If there were not enough saber knots to go around, I wonder if those odd saber knots are leather strings fashioned by the troopers to perform the same function?

Fun stuff.