Starbuck Show.on.Folder
+ Reply to Thread
Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 34
  1. #21
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Woodbridge, VA
    Posts
    208

    Re: Progressive? Hardcore??

    Ah, so many varying shades of grey, especially to those that want to paint the perfect contrast between black and white, ultimate and penultimate, etc. If one feels that they have reached the pinnacle of reenacting, it must be remembered that from the pinnacle the only direction is down, so another peak must be found to scale.

    The point has been made about this site, I believe and paraphrasing from Gen John A. Lejeune, "...the relationship should be more like teacher and student." We are all students here, and at the same time teachers, for there is always some tidbit of information to be harvested from the fields of history. Remember once a upon a time all of us were babes, knowing nothing about the world. What if all those 'grown-ups' had shunned us and not imparted their worldly experience upon us? Let us be tolerant of those who ask, for remember even if you have heard the question 500 times, it is the first time that individual has asked.

    I have yet to meet a person of any hobby or walk of life that was born with the knowledge of the ages. All of us make up our own titles, is there a test to become a hardcore? Who made you one, is there a commission that selects? I believe that all of us, what ever we call ourselves are self-proclaimed. I will say it is quite obvious to any observer those that play at this and those that are serious.

    Fan the flames!!!!

    s/f

    DJM
    Dan McLean

    Cpl

    Failed Battery Mess

    Bty F, 1st PA Lt Arty
    (AKA LtCol USMC)

    http://www.batteryf.cjb.net

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    In a Tractor Seat
    Posts
    2,448

    Lightbulb Re: Progressive? Hardcore??

    Part I: Unjumbling the Xmas Tree Lights

    Curt et al,

    As per your original question, the A-C Forum name works well. First I've always like Allis-Chalmers products, and "A-C" shows up near the top of those alphabetized lists of favorite places on the web. It's as good a name as any, and given the gyrations halts-and-starts from Easy Forum to EZBoard to the Glenn Jones era to the present configuration, it doesn't need any more instability, disruptions, changes, and so on. Some months have been a rough ride on the A-C.

    Bob Sullivan probably laid things out well some years ago with a quip about anyone more authentic than he was a hardcore, and anyone with less attention to authenticity was a farb. Black, white, and gray with most people feeling they fell in somewhere in the middle.

    In terms of the six classifications of reenactors, the A-C had a copy of my earlier postings and some great comments from Cal Kinzer alongside Paul's later article. A number of us, as you mentioned recently, learned a lesson about archiving articles on websites. A similar effort was published in CCG circa summer 1986, and that was either a four or five group examination. I cleared out a good number of CCGs over the past winter, but may still have that one in a filing cabinet. If anyone happens to have a copy of my ramblings on the subject, originally posted under Phineas Pharb, or Cal's essay, please feel free to post them here.

    The term "Progressive," as applied to reenactors, comes from a book about race, religion, and politics in 20th Century Richmond, and before that the national Progressive Era of politics. Remember reading "The Jungle?" Well, that's the gist of things, as a certain reform was needed. It appears to have done the intended job over the past few years.

    In effect, without using monikers, reenactors fall into a number of groups, namely those who:

    - really don't give a dang
    - have some clues, but not too many
    - have good gear, but camp poorly
    - enjoy distance events, and don't get caught up in the gear
    - move beyond the gear, camp well, and explore historical nuances
    - have a microfocus on gear and really not much else

    Group 1: To this day, I still see people wearing work boots, leaving coolers outside tents, fantasy drill, and doing all sorts of things more closely related to camping in funny clothing as opposed to anything remotely related to history. The now defunct Cobb's Legion springs to mind, but most any Fighting Valley Division group will provide the needed imagery. Like a few old lawnmowers I have known, it's good to realize they are beyond the scope and scale of repair abilities. Even Hercules couldn't clean those stables.

    Group 2: The next group does really have clues, but not too many. These would be the Vinnie's Brigade, Longstreet's Corps, and so forth. Even the mainstream has subtle subdivisions. Some of these folks try to keep a clean camp, some don't.

    Group 3: Some of the other otherwise mainstream groups have excellent gear, but retain the poor camping habits of the previous group. Basically gearheads in common tents for the rebs, and gearheads in dog tents for the feds. Sit on a cooler, drink a cold beer from the tin cup, and talk about how great that new Ben Tart jacket looks.

    Group 4: The group that enjoys distance events have a tough time finding that type of event, and at one time went great lengths to attend such events as Raymond 1, the Red River series, and other "march" events. If for no other reason that the love of distance, they could be called self-sufficient marchers, or the Volksmarchers of the reenacting hobby. For what it is worth, these same fellows would attend less attractive events, hang out, go home muttering about the state of the hobby and look forward to the next marching event.

    Group 5: Surely there could be a synergistic combination of the gearheads and the marchers? That was the missing link, IMHO, and it was also a confidence game. More on that later, but one had to either be a gearhead or a marcher to move into this category. These people yearned for information, and books like The Hardcracker Handbook, and 3rd Miss. Inf. Handbook were of great value.

    Group 6: The last group was more mythical than functional. Knowledge was hoarded, makers were kept secret. Frankly, sitting around under shade trees talking about how many cap pouches a maker could reproduce or how many cartridge boxes were kewl and which ones weren't wasn't a heck of a lot different than listening to folks in the first group earnestly wish they could predict what would have happened at Vicksburg had Johnston arrived with sufficient troops to attack Grant. (Bet you thought I was going to say "if only Stonewall had lived!" There had to be something more than gear-gear-nothing-but-gear, and some in the hobby may remember a mention of "the year to get beyond the gear." What a big disappointment to get to that level and thing "is this all there is?"

    I'm leaving out a lot of parts, but this subject has been beaten to death over the years. The strange part is each group can get along with the group next to it (especially if they needed numbers for an event), but moving two groups over was like oil and water. Not sure why, but others have mentioned that over the years.

    So to add in the labels:

    Group 1: Farb
    Group 2: Mainstream
    Group 3: Authenticist*
    Group 4: Campaigner
    Group 5: Progressive
    Group 6: Hardcore

    At one point termed the "authentics" due to clothing and equipment details, but the only authentics have been dead for nearly a half-century.

    There's a method to this madness, and I'll try to continue that a little later in Part II: Teaching and Preaching. Try to hold yer fire until the end.

    Charles Heath

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    In a Tractor Seat
    Posts
    2,448

    Lightbulb Re: Progressive? Hardcore??

    Part II: Teaching and Preaching

    Pogue says, "Who is us?" Hard question to answer, isn't it?

    If you'll notice, there's something missing in the first part. It's mostly about gear, linear events, and little about history or period army activities, such as tactics (drill), and vignettes like issuing rations, pickets, and guard duty. Something else is also missing, and that is the spread of information.

    The idea people could share information outside their peer group was pretty dang novel. Sure, CCG had some great articles in the middle of some maudlin event reports, recipes, whines, and parodies. It didn't scratch the surface, and at some point a grassroots effort was building where people wanted to know more, do more, and about the same time quality gear was becoming easier to purchase, and could be acquired in days rather than 14-18 months. It used to be a standing joke about how many people were in and out of the hobby before they ever received their gear from the handful of quality makers. Folks would fixate on gear for months at a time, and then when it came in, they'd have few places to go other than fests or SOYA LH events

    While this is starting to sound like the history of the world part, MCMLXVIII, there's a point -- eventually. One of the big breaks in terms of information was the Hardcracker Handbook. In spite of warts and copyright questions, it was a good idea. It filled in many gaps, and the time was right for such a publication. The Watchdog had been quietly barking along providing sort of a Consumer Reports at a time when such was truly needed. The information quandry was solved by email, listservers, and forums. It allowed a good many "readers" aka students thirsting for knowledge to stand on the shoulders of a few dozen "researchers."

    Information sharing signaled the end of information hoarding. Knowledge is power, and much of that power now shifted to people with access to the internet. Gone were the $400 per month phone bills, too. This gain in information caused a demand for quality goods. Anyone remember the great blanket shortage? Nowadays, one can't swing a cat without hitting a quality federal issue reproduction blanket. A fresh fish these days can oufit himself in gear a hardcore of only a dozen years ago could barely dream about -- and all within a week thanks to in-stock vendors. Likewise, some of the older makers have passed on, but their production items remain cherished. This caused sufficient demand for goods to create the luxurious market we have today.

    Information and gear problems solved. Perfect? No. Workable? Yes. With knowledge and gear in hand, what is there to do? How about putting them to use. Outside the small numbers at LHs, and outside the herds of cattle at megafests, there wasn't much going on in terms of events in the battalion (100-150 men) range for people who wanted to campaign (walk somewhere) with this newfound gear and knowledge. Over the years, the carpe eventums (seize a corner of an event and hold it) aka interpretive areas, and campaigner adjuncts (event marches) were pretty much the bread and butter, but for God's sake, look at all the circus in th background, foreground, and even planes with banners flying overhead (I don't mean the Hunley situation, either). The unsolved paradigm was events by people who wanted a certain type of event for people who also wanted that type of event. Others just wanted to collect reproduction clothing.

    Crazy, but it worked, and those events in some cases defied a label. How could campaigners enjoy a garrison event in an old masonry fort guarding prisoners in casemates? How could 1,200 men ranging from farbs to 'cores march side by side a heat baked route in Mississippi for three days, or a week in Louisiana? How come folks couldn't organize those same events in their backyards? They did, and people came to those events and enjoyed them. Suddenly, the stand alone event became popular, but in the background was the nagging realization of the human costs inherent in recruiting for these efforts, and the shock as to the lack of retention. Some people, grabbed the model by the horns and made a quantum leap. You know who you are. Others vaguely thought they might know someone who had been to an event and made some poor reproduction of events they should have attended. It was a mixed bag. Events were either really good or really bad, as the learning curve was steep.

    Units that had a little gumption, realized they could fill their ranks with flotsam, jetsam, mainstreamers, and whatever. Some groups understood they could use the rest of the hobby as filler. Other groups were more altruistic and adopted these new-to-the-dark-side people and began to re-educate them in a long term approach. In some cases, it was their first education. This is nothing new really, as people were mentoring since before the CW centennial.

    Mentoring? There's a word. What happened to those people who went back to big events to show the streamers. Well, a good number of them never returned having burned out on that suicide mission. Others realized it was better to bring along new folks to the better events where they could see how things worked, or not. After someone had progressed, it was hard to go back again. Lost a lot of crusaders that way. Remember the mortal combat over galvanizing? Dual impressions? The birth of a federal campaign battalion in the East?

    In a rambling nutshell, that's the teaching and preaching end of it. To get back to the name of it, there's merit in the "authentic campaigner" name. One cannot get an authentic experience as if on campaign sitting around at a mainstream event in a see of mediocrity and ironmongery, seas of canvas, and camping "campaign style." It does no good, and it is false notion to think it is even remotely related to a campaign. Perhaps the people on this forum are those who seek the few and far in between campaign events, thus they are in search of the authentic campaign. Not totally unrelated is the quest to preserve the ground on which the original campaigns and battles were made, for a preservation march in a shopping mall parking lot just isn't the same, is it? It's a journey. Mike Murley had a wonderful essay about "The Journey" that was deemed controversial at the time it was posted and then deleted by the heavy hand of the provost on Szabo's. Bill Watson alluded to this in his post with his not towards "authenticity" being the truth, and the "campaign" being a "journey" towards that truth. The joy is in the trip itself, not the destination. I like this, "campaigning -- moving in a wilderness of knowledge and experience in search of greater authenticity." Gee, semantics are fun.

    Or are they? Without sounding too much like a popular presidential candidate, let's look at another side of the issue. Remember that comment about a masonry fort event, such as I-600-I or I-600-II? How about the fabulous 151st NY's Winter 1864 event in Newfane NY? The civilian on civilian battles at Athens, MO, in 2001? What of Outpost 1999 and 2000? Harper's Ferry Election Day? Those are not exactly campaign events, but very good events nonetheless. We found a glimpse of truth in those places. Just a glimpse, but it was a clearer vision that say at 135th Gettysburg (aka Goofysburg) in 1998, or any Resaca of the Damned: Return of the Living Coon Peter Bone.

    Something else is missing. What is it? Remember all those activities from events? Pay call, mail call, packages from home, a ride on a train, wagons rolling along, mounted artillery, a recalcitrant pack mule, playing games, picket duty, roll call, guard duty, minstrel shows, ration issues, equipment issues, ammunition issues, snake oil salesmen, foraging, fatigue details, skits, period politics, home life, plays, tableus, revivals, and finally picking up the manual to rediscover (for the first time) drill. Mainstreamers used to do that. At some point they abdicated those period activities and I really don't know why. Just look at how a handful of people have revived bugle work to the extent there is a shortage of horn tooters.

    To get back to Curt's quandry in the field, at events, a company such as Bill Watson's Company I, and those that came before it, work fairly well. Outpost, by nature of the 1-2-3-4 system of organization on site would have partially negated this, but that system is rare. I've been shouted down a few times that this forum needed a sump where a post could either move from here to Szabo's at the press of a button (see the question about the locked Museum of the Confederacy Haversack Gift Shop's Stars N Bars necktie thread for an example), or the non-flame bait honest questions could go into a special place for "incubation" or "awkward squad" or maybe the "camp of instruction." How does one vet those questions? That I don't know. It really is a subjective area, and every objective tool I can imagine for this purpose has flaws.

    To be blunt, "Progressive" has been bastardized within the hobby to mean anyone who has just upgraded his shoe laces is now halfway to hardcore. It was intended to be a level where the pursuit of authenticity took on a holistic approach. On one hand, I wish I had not introduced or promoted the concept of the Progressive Reenactor for years and years ad nauseum; however, I realize about half the people posting on this forum wouldn't be here had not such a pyramid scheme transpired to get people to attend better events, and then get their pards to attend better events, and so on. Ya know what? Event attendance has gone into the toilet. It has been sliding since early 2002. "Attendance" also includes not making projected attendance forecasts. Some of you know what I mean.

    With event attendance in a slump due to a combination of a variety of heavy duty factors, maybe this is a good time for some introspection, perhaps even some rebuilding. The question remains "who is us?" I believe the "us" is smaller than it was about 3-4 years ago. The numbers aren't there. Hard to be a functional brigade with a handful of men. Hard to be a battalion with a company. Perhaps some adjustment in event design in terms of scope and scale is in order during this ebb. I'm speaking of stand alone events, and not necessarily the add ons, like the carpe eventums and campaigner adjuncts. It's way past time to move the primary focus away from the accessory events to the stand alones, IMHO.

    On to Part III: More Whining

    Charles Heath

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    In a Tractor Seat
    Posts
    2,448

    Lightbulb Re: Progressive? Hardcore??

    On to Part III: More Whining

    It's raining like crazy and the sun is shining. Not all of life make sense. For folks who haven't been around a while, this doesn't make a lot of sense either.

    Dividing the hobby into two factions wasn't anything new. Exacerbating that schism was something that worked to the EBUFU advantage, at least for a while. Basically, if someone wanted more than the typical cooler-n-cot fest, they had a choice. Pounding on the evils of for-profit megafests and other gross crimes against history worked well for recruiting when they were still around. After a bad G'burg, recruiting went up. Same for every really crappy Chancellorsville, Sharpsburg, Grant-vs-Lee, Manassas, and so on. "Still going to the wrong events?" was a good battle cry. Maybe everyone needs to go to a really crappy event about every 24 months to remember just how good it is on the dark side of the moon. (Here's a poorly kept secret, most folks in the CPH world do go to a FMA event at least once each year, if only to shop and hang out.)

    People needed a choice, and they took the road less traveled for a while. The problem with some EBUFU events is they are cookie cutter. I hate to point out certain LHs have earned the acronym "SOYA" (Sit On Yer Arse) events, but it is true. They are only made more dull and boring when one considers they may have spent $800-1,000 for an event, instead of mowing their yard. In non-monetary terms, the study time, the other prep time, and organizational tasks do take a toll. Simply put, EBUFU events are more challenging in a variety of on and off field areas. As time goes on, they get progressively more challenging, or at least they should, and that is one contributor to burn out.

    Life was good when "the us" could focus on 3-4 events each year. The calendar has spread out to include 12-15 events or more. Some of the conflicts have been the results of success, and trying to build on that success. (No finger pointing.) With a shrinking customer base, expanding venues is probably not a good idea. One of the unpopular ideas is for folks to consolidated their efforts in the upcoming lean year, and get back to not spreading "the us" too thin. I'll probably get tossed off this fine board (again) for the next two comments, but so be it. I've taken the sacrifice bunt a few times before.

    First, this coming weekend is a really nice little event over in Boonsboro, Maryland. Perhaps you have heard of it. Take a look in the events section under "The Gates of Washington." Your friends, peers, and pards on the field, have busted their tails to put on an event that they hope is as good or better than the Fire on the Mountain effort in September 2000. These fellows moved an unspeakable farbfest from the mid-late 1990s to a rather decent event the last time around, to what they hope is an even better offering. They have about 900 people, and are hoping for more. This is a good time to support your friends.

    Second, the Burkittsville event is hurtin'. If you want to go, you'd best make it known by registering now. Deadline is August 1st. I won't go into any details (ain't my place, and it would be wrong to do so) but the event does not have the registration dollars to make it happen at the moment. This is also a good time to support your friends.

    If "the us" doesn't support their own events, then who will? I'd really hate to see that progress go down the toilet.

    That's my whine, and I'm sticking to it,
    Charles Heath

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Martin, TN
    Posts
    47

    Re: Progressive? Hardcore??

    Amen and bully for you!

    Jordan Davis

  6. #26
    ScottMcKay Guest

    Re: Progressive? Hardcore??

    Heath,

    One group that you did not mention was the one that has their gear up to snuff so much that they don't have time, nor incling to discuss the trappings of clothing & gear, but rather they live a term (whether it be a weekend or week) of surviving as a soldier ... complete with military protocol and responsibilities ... and armed with enough researched history or the timeframe of that scenario that they can mesh into it so much that they don't have time to discuss 2004 ... much less think of it.

    That's what I call HARDCORE!

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Augusta, Georgia
    Posts
    217,157

    Re: Progressive? Hardcore??

    "Brevity is the soul of wit" -- Shakespeare.
    John Wickett
    Carpetbagger
    Administrator (We got rules here!)

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    In a Tractor Seat
    Posts
    2,448

    Talking Re: Progressive? Hardcore??

    Scott,

    Yep, I left out a heck of a lot. Didn't want anyone to suffer needlessly from Chronic Campaigner Attention Deficit Disorder.

    Anyhow, thanks for hitting the cream puff out of the ballpark, as I knew you would, but you left out the part about how all true 'cores believe in the courtesy flush!

    Charles Heath

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Woodbridge, VA
    Posts
    208

    Re: Progressive? Hardcore??

    Bottom line in my book is in order to present yourself as a soldier of the ACW you must endeavor to be that soldier in all respects. I have been a soldier (Marine) for better than 1/2 my life and it is easy for me to pick out a person that has been trained "under discipline" and one who has not. Even in reenactors it is fairly easy for me to pick out a reenactor that has been a military member and one who has not. You can take the soldier (Marine, sailor, etc) out of the army, but you can't take the soldier out of the man. Military people are fairly neat, organized and wear their gear in a soldierly and comfortable fashion, stand straighter and unconsciously fall into step with the person they are walking with. He can be dressed in rags, but there will be not mistaking the soldier. You can see the difference in the civilian wearing a military uniform, as it looks like a civilian wearing a suit of clothes, look at new recruits at any of the current basic training commands (primarily because the look like a soup sandwich or a sea bag with lips). In ACW vernacular there was a difference between a soldier and a scalawag.

    s/f

    DJM
    Dan McLean

    Cpl

    Failed Battery Mess

    Bty F, 1st PA Lt Arty
    (AKA LtCol USMC)

    http://www.batteryf.cjb.net

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    In a Tractor Seat
    Posts
    2,448

    Thumbs up Re: Progressive? Hardcore??

    You bring up a great point:

    "...but you can't take the soldier out of the man."

    Getting rid of the muscle memory in the hands at the position of the soldier (attention) is about as difficult a habit to undo as any I know.

    Charles Heath

+ Reply to Thread
Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

     

Similar Threads

  1. Improving Your Impression: Not About Money: by Paul Calloway
    By paulcalloway in forum Editorial Articles
    Replies: 27
    Last Post: 11-19-2012, 02:42 PM
  2. An Attempt at Defining the Terms: by Paul Calloway
    By paulcalloway in forum Editorial Articles
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 07-10-2007, 10:56 PM
  3. Progressive Unit near Minnesota?
    By billywebb in forum Camp of Instruction
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 02-15-2004, 12:30 PM
  4. Progressive Units in Oklahoma
    By AlamoRifle in forum Camp of Instruction
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 02-14-2004, 08:52 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts