FRock

[20thMainerCampaigner]

Hello,

I'm in serious need of a new frock coat. I really would like to avoid having to pay $400-$500 bucks. I was on the C&D Jarnigan website and looking at their clothes, I know their reputation isn't very good, but I bought some leather gear from them and it was very nice. The text said the coat was quilted and everything and copied from an original in their colletion. I'm kind of worried purchasing a Frock there isn't a good idea. Can anyone tell me about their frock coats(coloring, quilting, tail pockets, hooks and eyes on the collar and tails)? I know most of their clothes aren't exactly museum quality.

Thanks,
Pvt. Courtney Micker(I know it's a girl's name)

[K Bartsch]

Welcome to the A-C Courtney!

There's an old English proverb that goes, "Don't be penny wise and pound foolish." I mention that only to illustrate a simple fact of life in this end of the hobby. Most of us started out buying items which were "close enough" and later replaced them at considerable expense. We were "penny wise" in that we thought we were saving some pennies (indeed even LOTS of pennies) in the beginning by going with garments purchased through the big mainstream houses. We were "pound foolish" because we ended up spending more in the long run in that we not only wasted money on an item with which we quickly became dissatisfied and we ultimately paid still more for a quality replacement.

All that simply to say, if you can't afford a good frock now, then I respectfully suggest you wait until you can.

Cordially,

[Curt Schmidt]

Hallo Herr Courtney!

Welcome to the AC Forum!

The AC Forum strives to list makers and vendors of clothing and gear with an earned reputation for authenticity and quality of their offerings as they relate to a number of factors such as CW era materials, patterns and forms, construction methods and techniques, and their relationship/comparison to the actual original items.

With the broad umbrella of the Civil War Community running a gamut and gauntlet from F/M/C/P/H/A and many shades and levels in between each section, there are makers and vendors that produce products geared and more appropriate for those different Mental Pictures and levels of interests, applications, and events.

I might would suggest that you take a few minutes and review the AC Forum "list" of approved vendors. If you do not find the "name" you have a question about, it is usually not there for a very good reason (and that reason being largely that they to not provide for, or are not a service, to or for the "authentic community."

And, indeed, as Herr Bartsch shared, most all of us have learned the "Hard Way" about the "False Economy" of Sutler Row and Run-of-the-Mill, or Brand X
wares. Meaning, a pair of Sutler Row shoes do not cost say $90. They actually will cost one say $230 when an "authentic" pair could have cost only say $140.
That is because the "bogus" shoes will either fall apart, or their owner will find that he has learned, progressed, evolved and moved on in a few months or a year to where he requires more historically accurate or "authentic shoes". (If not just simply replacement shoes when the Frankenstein Boots fall apart... [my best/worst actual story is a Mainstream pard whose shoes lasted 20 minutes before the soles fell apart..]).
And now one must spend $140 on top of the wasted expense of $90 for a total of $230 when one could have spent only the $140 to begin with. (Or if one shopped on say the AC Forum want-ads, one might have had to pay much less than even the $140 if not closer to the $90 to begin with for a gentle worn pair or even new pair from someone else).
I know we are talking about dress coats here and not shoes. But, substitute ANY item of clothing or article of gear one likes...

Curt-Heinrich Schmidt
Waster of Thousands of Dollars Himself Over the Years Mess

And... Strive to become an Educated Consumer. If I had a dollar for every time I heard a Sutler Row, Run-of-the-Mill, or Brand X vendor claim that an item or article was "copied from an original" I could likely buy a company premium/authentic dress coats. IMHO, when one cannot determine whether that "copied from an original" means 100%, 90%, 50% 10%, or 1% and WHY- one is in grave danger of being separated from his hard-earned money very quickly! (When "approved vendors," (quality vendors) make that claim they can back it up- and many even go as far as to compare their wares
side-by-side (as it should be) with the "originals" they were copied from (NEVER compare repro's with repro's- ALWAYS compare repro's with originals!)!! Or, they will be more than happy to discuss their products with an inquiring customer!!!)

[DougCooper]

A federal frock is a once in a career buy, so it might as well be a authentic, i.e., correct in materials, pattern and construction. In the old days, we waited patiently for one to be made, shelled out the big bucks...and unless we got out of the hobby and sold it, or gained or lost a lot of weight, we still have it.

Today, the part that has changed is the waiting - there are two excellent vendors on the AC approved list that are actually making them as we speak, so the wait is nil. And wonder of wonders, the price has changed very little over the last few years for the best.

Using Curt's real cost methodology, you could spend $700 for one - $200 for the incorrectly made frock out of a poor grade of wool, that looks very little like the real deal....then pay the $500 for the good one.

The hidden costs of not going authentic early are: missed authentic events (coat not acceptable), guilt, shame, delay, possible price increases and the numerous "I told you so's" that will no doubt ensue

Seriously, good frocks are the single most under-priced garment anybody makes, considering it will last forever if taken care of and the complexity and materials cost.

The economics are inescapable. As Keith says, if you can't afford it now, wait if you have too, sell something, use lay-away, etc. It will be worth it.

[K Bartsch]

Courtney,

And to make matters worse, its ethically tough to justify attempts to sell to others all the stuff bought before you knew better.

Fortunately for all of us here, the collective vigilance of our happy little A-C family is always quick to smite any such attempts. For me, that is just one of the great aspects of this site. While the caveat emptor principle, like the laws of physics, cannot be suspended, I submit one can buy with confidence here -- either from the approved vendors or from individual members selling used goods.

You might do well to post over on "wanting to buy" your desire for a new federal frock. Folks gain and lose weight. Folks leave the hobby. Who knows, someone may have a nice one which no longer fits or simply no longer need which you could pick up at a bargain price.

BTW, I wouldn't have ever thought of trying to tell Courtney Hodges his was a "girls" name

Courtney Hodges

Good luck with your frock coat quest!

[JimConley]

Just to echo what has already been pointed out, you should shy yourself from C&D Jarnagin garments. As the others have mentioned, there is a pretty solid list of vendors approved here on the forums. I suggest shopping around at reputable vendors' sites and go from there. You'll be happy you spent the extra money for something you know to be correct and can enjoy that few hundred dollars worth for many years. My personal suggestion would be to check out these two greats:
County Cloth/Charlie Childs
C.J. Daley Historical Reproductions

By the way, since you did mention you would like to save money, I believe that Mr. Daley has his US frocks on sale this month as you will notice by clicking the link I have provided...happy hunting.

[DixieLand1859]

If your looking to save money on a high quality frock and don’t need one right away, consider browsing the Buy / Sell folder on this site. I was able to find a great ************ Confederate Frock on this site awhile back for far less than retail price. Just something to keep in mind....

[mark11]

I just purchased a Frock from Joe Hoffman the Skillet Licker and it is a thing of beauty. It is well worth the money, and it only took THREE days to get here, and I live in Arizona! My advice is save your money and buy what is quality and AUTHENTIC. Recently I have had two pards buy from Jarnigan and the quality was less than acceptable, to be kind. For my money you cannot go wrong with Joe and his products, he is a class guy and a pleasure to do business with.
Mark Robeson

[Curt Schmidt]

Hallo Kameraden!

The bitterness of poor quality is remembered long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten. ~ John Ruskin

Curt-Heinrich Schmidt

[20thMainerCampaigner]

Thbaks for the replies, I hate to buy things without seing them. I deal a lot with Joe Hoffmann, mostly Nick ************ stuff. My problem is outgrow pretty much everything in a year except my gear. It almost made me sick when I put on my J.T. martin a year after I bought it, and it didn't fit. I always buy things big. Well anyway I think i'll wait until I slow down and either buy a Chris Daley or a Nick ************. My old one was a sutler row garment that almost made me laugh when I looked at it's authenticity.

Thanks,
Pvt. Courtney Micker