Wooden British Ammo boxes

[militiaman1835]

I saw photos and plans for making a british wooden ammunition box which is very different from the U.S. boxes. My question is would the 577 rounds shipped through the blockade have come in these type of boxes or would they have been packed in larger crates for shipping then repacked at CS arsenals in domestic boxes?
JIM HENSLEY

[Material Culture]

In researching some other boxes and shipping crates made in England for shipment to the states I found that they were usually made of Elm wood. All of the Elm trees in America were wiped out in the 1920's. Making an authentic reproduction would be a very expensive venture.

Sam Hayle
Tinsmith Mess

[Tom Ezell]

It might be noted that in Roads' book, The British Soldier's Firearms, 1850-1872, he describes Enfield cartridges as being packed in wooden kegs, not boxes. The book includes pictures, and a cross-section of one of the kegs.

[Hank Trent]

Originally Posted by Material Culture

In researching some other boxes and shipping crates made in England for shipment to the states I found that they were usually made of Elm wood. All of the Elm trees in America were wiped out in the 1920's. Making an authentic reproduction would be a very expensive venture.

If the crates were made of elm in England, they probably were made of English elm (Ulmus procera also called Ulmus campestris), not American elm (Ulmus americana).

Both English elm and American elm were decimated by the blight that did its damage in the 1970s. I can remember when the blight hit the two large American elms in our side yard.

However, slippery elm (red elm, Ulmus rubra) was unaffected, and is a common timber tree today in America. There are other unaffected elm species too, but that's the most common timber elm in our local area (Ohio).

So... It's a matter of degrees. Since the blight hit fairly recently, there's a fair amount of recycled timber left. Most of the English elm timber is in England though, but you can find some in the U.S. Typical recycled elm timber in the U.S. is American elm, available but still the wrong species. Renewable elm timber in the U.S. is also available, but still wrong, being red elm or another species.

And then there's the added problem, with all species of wood not just elm, of trying to get it wide enough, which will be a major part of the expense.

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

[Craig L Barry]

As Tom Ezell states, CH Roads describes the Enfield rounds used by the British Army as being packed in kegs. I am not certain the rounds produced for commercial export were packed the same way. There is evidence that at least some of the imported ammunition was in "crates". Also, as I read the first post in this thread, the broader question (besides the type wood from which the painted ammo box is constructed) is how the ammunition was disseminated once it arrived in port, in other words did it arrive in some other sort of container and then possibly get re-packed into "crates"?

There is a one line reference in a biography of Joe Shelby called "The Last Confederate General" by Daniel O'Flaherty that describes his remaining troops (post Appomattox) taking possession of abandoned military stores in Waco, Texas. These consist of 2,000 Enfields and 40,000 rounds "still in their crates that they left England in." Presumably this refers to both the Enfields and the ammunition. While I don't know that this single passage answers all of your questions, it does make reasonably clear that at least some of the ammunition for the Enfield arrived from England in "crates" marked as such. It was apparently transported out and stored in these same "crates" pending issuance.

[militiaman1835]

The info is from the 65th reg reenactor website. They do 1860's in Australia. Here are photos of box. JIM HENSLEY

[riptailedroarer]

Originally Posted by Tom Ezell

It might be noted that in Roads' book, The British Soldier's Firearms, 1850-1872, he describes Enfield cartridges as being packed in wooden kegs, not boxes. The book includes pictures, and a cross-section of one of the kegs.

to quote from "Arms and Equipment of the British Army,1866"

Bal ammunition is packed in barrels and in boxes. For al stations within the tropics or for service in the feild, as well asfor China, small-arm ammunition is packed in boxes;those for tropical countries are made of teak, with mahogany ends.
Qurter barrels of service ammunition for the Enfeild rifle musket are 141/4 inches long and 11 5/8 inches in diameter. the gross weight is 75 1/2 lbs. The caps are contained in a zinc cylinder. tey bear the following label in black letters upon white paper, the head of the barrel being black:-
FOR
RIFLE MUSKET /53
BULLET.55 DIAMETER
WAX
powder 21/2 Drs.
WOOD PLUG
CARTRIDGES 700
CAPS 1,050
WATERPROOF BAGS

Boxes of service ammunition for the Enfield rifle musket are 16 1/2 inches long, 7 1/2 inches broad and 8 1/2 inchesdeep,external dimentions overall.

[Craig L Barry]

"Arms and Equipment of the British Army,1866...Illustrated by Petrie"? Excellent source. Kudos. I did not even think of looking in that book, instead approaching the question from the opposite side of the equation, ie: what the CS had here. Very interesting!

[Parault]

I keep trying to look at the pic,but, I keep having to log in. When I do it makes me log in again several times. I cannot look at the pictures could you send them to me PM?



Never mind I got it. I got a cousin that is a wood worker marvel. I will give him this challenge.


The Box looks good

[58 lorenz]

I have a WW2 British Ammo crate from about 1940. It is almost identical in size and shape to that Australian one,right down to that sliding top section.

Doug Price