Buckskins?

[Barry Smithson]

I have a question for those of you more experienced than I. I have seen the debates on horse colors and types rage on this and other boards. I have a buckskin quarter horse that I have used for hunting. He is calm, unfazed by crowds, smoke and gunfire. I was considering using him for reenacting. I know that the color-type was defined much later then the mid 19th century. I have seen photos of light colored horses as well as far more of the dark colors. My question is how far off am I to use him?

[MountedRifle]

Barry,
I used the horse and wouldn't worry about the color issue. The important thing is to take it slow and get the horse use to the sights and sounds of a reenactment event. I've got a chestnut colored mare and she fits in fine. I know most people say only use a gelding but I truly believe it depends on the individual disposition of the horse as to whether or not they will be a good mount for a event. The proper saddle and equipment is also important. If the horse is comfortable with what you put on it's back it will tend to be a more "happy" horse. Put your horse next to a seasoned veteran and it will most likely take the lead from the veteran and stay calm. Being a herding animal they all need a "buddy."

I wish you great success with your new mount.

Safety First,

Mark White
16th MO Mounted Infantry

[Linneus Ahearn]

Originally Posted by Barry Smithson

I have a buckskin quarter horse that I have used for hunting. He is calm, unfazed by crowds, smoke and gunfire. My question is how far off am I to use him?

Although Buckskin or Dun colored horses were less common than other "common colors" during the mid-19th century they still existed and were used. Sounds like you have a potential good one.

You can go to my webpages to get some ideas on how to train him to be a good cavalry mount if you like.

[10nycav]

Stonewall Jackson's mount "Little Sorrel" was described by one contemporary observer as a "dun of very sorry appearance." From my readings dun appeared to be a color that was more common in non-TB horses at that time. I would argue that this color was rare in horses originating in the Northeast and Canada, due to the original base stock of these horses, but became more common as one traveled South and West. Common local stock, with probable old Spanish influence, would be more likely to have this color. "Poor men's" horses in the South, for example marsh tackies, cracker horses, Creole horses, and Chickasaws, would be more likely to be of this color since they all have Spanish influence. It was found in the Mexican mustangs of Texas as well as half-bred "Texas horses" (TB/Mexican cross). First hand Civil War accounts also discuss gray and roan horses, so these would be fine too.

The only color I would say is inaccurate for battlefield use is a spotted horse. There is substantial period literature arguing that such horses were less hardy. There was a strong military prejudice against them on the basis of appearance too. In the East they were considered fit for circuses, pulling advertising wagons, and the like. If they were ever used it would most likely be in the western theater where they had access to Mexican mustangs. (I think I recall seeing one mention of Kilpatrick riding a "spotted horse" but unfortunately can't remember now where I saw it.) Still, it would a rarity on a par with jaguar-skin trowsers as far as I can tell.

Of course, many reenactors use horse types and breeds that were rare or nonexistent in the US at that time. Color is only one issue although of course, the most easily recognizable. Unfortunately, many of the old breeds and bloodlines are extinct or nearly so, and among those breeds that have survived appearance has often changed a great deal.

Ken Morris

[Charles Heath]

Ken,

This may help a tad with the Spotted Horse story you recalled:

Confederate Veteran Magazine mentions:

http://www.terrystexasrangers.org/co.../1906_309.html

http://www.terrystexasrangers.org/co.../1906_062.html

As long as Little Sorrel hung around as a stuffed display, I'd guess a color photo wouldn't be too awful hard to locate. (Famous last words!)

Charles Heath

[Linneus Ahearn]

Back before they buried Little Sorrel's last remains I took a look at him but they didn't allow photos. Judging his coat by what I know of the dun factor I don't recall any line down his back or any difference in his mane and tail color. He seemed just a faded with age sorrel or chestnut. Here is a look at him after the war (obvously a black and white photo)
http://nwhorse.com/images/littlesorrel.jpg

[10nycav]

Thanks, I knew I'd seen it somewhere! Too bad the horse was not described. He may have been leopard-spotted, otherwise he probably would have been called piebald, skewbald or even "calico." Some leopard-spotted horses were imported from Germany in the 1850s. But there's no way of knowing without a better description.

As for Little Sorrel, I have seen a color photo of him. He looked like a faded pale chestnut in the photo. Problem with old taxidermied animals is that they can fade a lot and not look much like the original color. If he had a line or "list" down his back he was a red dun; if not he was just plain ol' sorrel. I couldn't tell from looking at the photo. I believe he was also described by contemporaries as a light sorrel rather than as a dun. However a saddle and crupper would have hidden the list.

Ken Morris

Originally Posted by Charles Heath

Ken,

This may help a tad with the Spotted Horse story you recalled:

Confederate Veteran Magazine mentions:

http://www.terrystexasrangers.org/co.../1906_309.html

http://www.terrystexasrangers.org/co.../1906_062.html

As long as Little Sorrel hung around as a stuffed display, I'd guess a color photo wouldn't be too awful hard to locate. (Famous last words!)

Charles Heath

[Charles Heath]

Ken,

As you sift through this, note the differences is color between the two color shots of Little Sorrel. In 1911, a great 1863 photograph of Little Sorrel aka Fancy aka Bob was printed in the Cavalry volume of the Photographic History of the Civil War. It is probably in the more recent editions, too. His coat is shining, and he shows good form for his supposed Morgan breeding. That photo doesn't seem to show up on the 'net, and neither do the great views of the horses from Grierson's Raid. The latter of which had a heck of a lot of color variations in their mounts. More on that at another time.

Little Sorrel when alive:

http://www.vmi.edu/archives/jackson/...l/03028052.jpg

Well fed Little Sorrel:

http://www.vmi.edu/archives/jackson/.../03028052b.jpg

Same image as a small card currently for sale:

http://www.horsesoldier.com/catalog/p9942a.JPEG

Color Photo about 2/3 way down on the right.

http://www4.vmi.edu/museum/jackson.html

From the Smithsonian page:

"Little Sorrel, or "Fancy" as he was known, became famous as the mount of General Stonewall Jackson. Captured at Harpers Ferry by the Confederates, he was chosen initially for Mrs. Jackson but eventually commandeered by the General when his own horse, Big Sorrel, proved unreliable in battle.
In 1863, at Chancellorsville, Jackson, while riding the horse, was wounded by his own men and died a few days later. At first Little Sorrel was pastured at Mrs. Jackson's home in North Carolina, later sent as a mascot to the Virginia Military Institute where the General had taught cadets he led to battle, and then in response to requests from many Southern States, was shown at fairs and exhibitions.

In 1885, ancient and infirm at the age of 35, he was retired to the Confederate Soldier's Home. The following year he died when the hoist used to lift him to his feet slipped; he fell breaking his back. Little Sorrel was stuffed and housed in a museum at the Veterans Home until 1949 when he was finally returned to V.M.I."

Now, what color is this horse (another view) (about 1/2 way down the page) :

http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/...children/61354

The 1997 burial:

http://users.erols.com/va-udc/sorrell.html

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Charles Heath

[10nycav]

Here's a fun article about Little Sorrell by someone who actually knew him:

http://www.aphillcsa.com/index/smith7.html

[The passage about Little Sorrell begins about 2/3 of the way down the page.]

Sounds like he was an extremely intelligent horse. I also was amused by his habit of lying down like a dog whenever the troops would stop to rest. He also from this account, was an expert forager. It's not surprising Little Sorrell lived so long--he really knew how to take care of himself.

Now that Little Sorrell is a historical icon various breed groups are trying to claim him as "theirs." The Morgan people say he is a Morgan, the Saddlebred people say he was a Saddlebred. There is no evidence that either is true. Little Sorrell looks like neither a Morgan or a Saddlebred. The fact that he paced or ambled argues against him being a Morgan. The Morgans at that time were noted as trotters. The ambling trait does occur in the breed occasionally but it is rare. Pacing horses in the North generally came from Canada (the Canadian Pacer) and some of these pacers were also imported into the South. Most of the gaited breeds developed in the middle South have some Canadian Pacer in their background. (The Pacer itself was said to have arisen from a mix of the Narragansett Pacer and the Canadian Horse. However, there were several families of pacers in Canada that looked very different, so the truth may be much more complicated than this.) Little Sorrell's conformation actually resembles the Hal family of Canadian Pacers more than a Morgan or Saddlebred--high withers, straight back, straight rather than crested neck, and rather short, sloping croup. The Canadian Pacer is now extinct, but one of its predecessors--the Canadian horse--still survives, and the blood of the Canadian Pacer still runs, albeit much diluted, in the Standardbred, the Tennessee Walker, and other American gaited breeds. (The South also had indigenous families of gaited horses, probably of Spanish extraction, most of which are extinct today. The Florida Cracker horse is one example of this type which still survives in small numbers.)

Ken Morris

[The Egyptian Homeguard]

Originally Posted by Charles Heath

Ken,

That photo doesn't seem to show up on the 'net, and neither do the great views of the horses from Grierson's Raid. The latter of which had a heck of a lot of color variations in their mounts. More on that at another time.
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Charles Heath

Charles, Could you pass on the information you have on Grierson's mounts... I thought I had read and had copies of just about every thing available on the 6th and 7th ILL during his 1863 raid. I think I know the pictures you are talking of, although I don't have them in front of me right now. As I recall there isn't much detail in them other than several horses on the picket line and several waiting in column. By the way the Illinois State Historical Society has a great (1906) account from former Sgt. Forbes of the 7th, and U of I at Champaign has the Forbes Family Letters that Cpt. and Sgt. Forbes wrote home. I also ran across a nice shot of Grierson's Baton Rouge camp in a book, and photocopied it, unfortunately I didn't remember to copy where the original image is, so I'll have to get to the library again. The photocopy is grainy, but clear and enlarged to original size would be awesome I'm sure. I'll pass on the image when I get the details. Thanks, Zack Ziarnek