Cravats and/or ties???

[Moonshine]

Hello all,

I'm in the process of looking to buy a cravat or tie or whatever these things are called. I've never worn one but after doing a little research, I've seen 2 types. One that looks like a modern bow tie that secures at the neck and then there are some that resemble something that looks like Kentucky Fried Chicken Col. Sanders!

What's the difference and what if any would be more common? Any good vendors besides skillet licker and historic clothiers?

Thanks in advance...

Jim Ross

[msmjr]

Hi there Jim...I'm not an authority on ties and cravats, but I'll share what I know "from the books." (Please don't challenge me to remember where I read this, as it has been years since I came across this info...

Pre-tied cravats and the ones you have to do yourself were around like today. Some of the ones you tie yourself were a big 'ole square of silk, folded many times over, starched, and voila. Starching silk and ironing, it seems, is a timely process, so I would suspect that the time involved would belong to those that had the time in the first place - your upper class, higher-ranking officers, and what have you.

Looking at photos however, the "KFC" thing you mentioned appears to me to be that big 'ole square of silk, folded many times over, and tied like a regular bow tie w/o any starch. Sometimes, the ends got tucked in, sometimes, they were left to hang. Guess much of that depends on preference and the size of material used to wear as a cravat. For sure, I don't think soldiers took a lot of starch to the field, so I'd bet that most of the cravats that look floppy-sloppy belong to lower ranking folks and if worn outdoors, are worn straight from wherever they were stowed away. Of course, THIS thought is speculation.....

To add to the discussion, the string "bolo" tie stuff is not really for our era of representation....from what I gather, that came later, as in (perhaps) the "Old West" era.

I suspect that cravats and how they were tied....well, it might be like tying one's shoes. Not a lot of dictation on shoe knots because......it's tying one's shoes for goodness sake.

If I am WAAAY off on this info, I'll gladly concede.....

Regards,
-Mike Montgomery

[pfeiffer3964]

Originally Posted by msmjr

Sometimes, the ends got tucked in, sometimes, they were left to hang.

We all know that the regs were not consistently followed, but...

An excerpt from General Orders No. 9, Adjt. and Insp. Generall's Office, Richmond, VA, June 6, 1861, Uniform and Dress of the Army:

CRAVAT OR STOCK.

32. For all officers, black. When a cravat is worn, the tie not to be visible at the opening of the collar.
33. For enlisted men, black leather, according to pattern.

--Jim

[RyanBWeddle]

http://www.cornerclothiers.com/accessories.htm

Check them out, IMHO they are the best!

Good luck!