Use of Model 1855 Rifled Muskets by Confederate Forces

[BC Guru]

Re: Use of Model 1855 Rifled Muskets by Confederate Forces

Also in the EoG for the Confederacy on page 31 there is a picture of two soldiers who have the two band 1855 rifles. The caption says they are Mississippi Rifles but you can see the tape primer door, long range sight, and a single top band. In Chapter 4 of "My Reminiscences of the Civil War" by Captain Alfred Mallory of the 27th VA he talks about while being armed at Harpers Ferry in 1861 they were issued "mountain muskets" which they refused and instead had gotten "minnie rifles" that had been in the Harpers Ferry fire and repaired. You can read it on the free preview. http://smile.amazon.com/My-Reminisce...der_B005II64Y0

Mr. Clester, welcome to the forum. Please take a gander at the rules here. One of which is that everyone must sign their posts with their true name. - Silas Tackitt, one of the moderators

[BC Guru]

Re: Use of Model 1855 Rifled Muskets by Confederate Forces

If I remember right this is a photo of the 18th Mississippi troops after the 2nd battle of Fredericksburg. It looks like there are a couple of 1st Model M1855 rifle muskets within the ranks of these guys, but they could be props. http://www.gilderlehrman.org/sites/d...9.31p1_1_0.jpg

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Use of Model 1855 Rifled Muskets by Confederate Forces

Hallo!

"Did the people of the mid-19th century not know we would obsess about details like this 150 years later?"

No.
They figured that 100 some years in the Future when people were reenacting (some of) the things they did that the people in the future would have exact reproductions of their clothing, kit, and weaponry and not bogus sub-par Indian, Pakistani, Chinese, and Italian stuff.

;) :) :)

If they could make such authentic stuff with the technology and machinery they had back then, just imagine what the people of the future could do with theirs.

:)

Curt

[Craig L Barry]

Re: Use of Model 1855 Rifled Muskets by Confederate Forces

I know, right? Did the people of the mid-19th century not know we would obsess about details like this 150 years later? Quite inconsiderate of the artist who touched up the image of McNair wasn't it...

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Use of Model 1855 Rifled Muskets by Confederate Forces

Hallo!

"I still can't quite tell if the image Mike Hoover posted of John McNairy Thompson is of an 1855 or Richmond rifle-musket."

Being a "poor man's" simulated painting reworking a photograph, the artist has "painted over" the detail making it impossible (use of a Universal so noted) to tell.

On the other, we could add another log to the campfire and joke about artillerists getting riled when infantrymen talk/write about their hand-held small arms as "guns." :) :)

Curt

[Craig L Barry]

Re: Use of Model 1855 Rifled Muskets by Confederate Forces

Based on Curt's first post here, I thought he was making the rifle vs rifled point on Armory nomenclature. Off topic a bit but the US 1816, US 1822 or US 1816/22 was another modern naming convention that was not in use at that time.

I still can't quite tell if the image Mike Hoover posted of John McNairy Thompson is of an 1855 or Richmond rifle-musket. Some very early high hump Richmonds made use of the captured stocks that were fitted with patchboxes. You can't quite make out the tape primer door clearly. Berry clearly carries a US 1855, though. Soldiers on both sides often called them all "Springfields" anyway, regardless of where they were made, the year they were made or who manufactured them. Even the Confederate Armory version...there are references to "Richmond Springfields."

Lastly, if the question is about CS use of the 1855, I think it is reasonably clear there were a number that served the cause of the Southern States. It seems like the question has been answered as well as it can be given the limited surviving records.

[Jimmayo]

Re: Use of Model 1855 Rifled Muskets by Confederate Forces

Jim, a little bit of WD 40 will fix that old lock right up!

I was going to try that but it is missing the main spring and I don't think I could get one that was suitably pitted..:wink_smil

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Use of Model 1855 Rifled Muskets by Confederate Forces

Hallo!

"Tell it (to) the Savannah Militia Corps. that there were no 1855 "Rifled Muskets". The Savannah Militia Corps. received theirs in 1857. Type I, U.S. Rifled Musket, Model of 1855...'

Okay then..

Savannah Militia Corps. there were no 1855 "Rifled Muskets". The Savannah Militia Corps. received theirs in 1857. Type I, U.S. Rifle Musket, Model of 1855... :)

Which is why I said technically there were no Model 1855 Rifled Muskets in Reply #3... :)

Seriously, the point to be taken away is there is a mix or Hobbyisms and Reenactorisms, actual history, and even some Period errors at work at times.

There are no "Model 1855 Rifled Muskets." Technically there are no "Model 1855 Springfields" otherwise then perhaps there should be "Model 1855 Harpers Ferry's." Or may be for that matter. M1861 Trentons, or M1861 Bridesburgs, or M1861 Norwichs, or M1861 Remingtons.

The Model 1842 was a musket. The Model 1842 Rifled Musket is a smoothbore M1842 Musket that was later in 1856 and 1857 rifled (and typically sighted with a long range rear sight). These are sometimes referred to as the Model 1842 Musket, rifled and sighted.

In reading Period writings whether personal letters or even formal military correspondence, CW era writers are sometimes as loose, careless, and as indiscriminate with "nomenclature' as we Moderns are. IMHO, while one would expect an "uneducated' and not military 'educated' man to maybe refer to his rifle-musket sometimes as a musket or a rifle when it was technically neither, one would expect Ordnance Department folks to be more "correct.'

Oh, for example. from the U.S. Ordnance Manual, 3rd Edition (aka 1861, aka 1862):

"SMALL ARMS

The small arms adopted for service are:
The rifle musket, model 1855.
The rifle musket, model 1842.
The cadet musket, model 1858.
The rifle, model 1855.
The rifle, model 1842, reamed out to .58 inch.
The pistol carbine, model 1855"

The Confederates plagiarized, er pretty much cloned the U.S. Ordnance Manual as their Ordnance manual's First Edition in 1863. It reads:

"SMALL ARMS

The small arms adopted for service are:
The rifle musket, model 1855.
The rifle musket, model 1842.
The rifle, model 1855.
The rifle, model 1842, reamed out to .58 inch."

The mistakes are... obvious.

Perhaps funny, as the Confederates say for nomenclature refer to the 1861 U.S. manual. :)

And last but not least.... in time, and over time, even famous, eminent, and respected firearm historians fall victim. For example Claude Fuller in his seminal 1958 'The Rifled Musket." ;) :)

We tend to be a mix of loose terms, jargon, reenactorisms, Period mistakes, Period terms, and attempts to sort it out with not always universally agreed upon modern Typology. (Civil War folks knew nothing by the name U.S. Model 1855 Rifle Musket (Types I, II).

Curt

[Philo]

Re: Use of Model 1855 Rifled Muskets by Confederate Forces

Excellent point !!!

[cod1tn]

Re: Use of Model 1855 Rifled Muskets by Confederate Forces

Hi Folks,

I tried a search on this and came up flat, but has anyone seen or could refer me to a discussion or article that addresses the genuine use of M1855 US rifles by Confederate forces?

Thanks!

-Sam Dolan

Sam, the 1st Tennessee Infantry (Maney's) carried M1855 Springfields for most of the war. I have attached photos of three members of the 1st TN holding their rifles. The State of Tennessee received Sprinfields in 1859 or 1860 as part of the Militia act as mentioned in an earlier post. Berry's photo has the clearest picture of it. Rutland's photo his rifle is sideways but you can see the "door" of the priming system sticking out. Thompson is holding the 2nd model that had a patchbox. A soldier in Company H of the 1st Tennessee wrote in the Columbia Daily Herald on October 5, 1900 "The regiment all voted to go [to Virginia], and they carried their guns, the comparable Springfield Rifle until they surrendered them to Sherman on the 26th of April 1865."

[Craig L Barry]

Re: Use of Model 1855 Rifled Muskets by Confederate Forces

Perhaps the distinction is one of nomenclature, that is "rifled musket" vs "rifle musket." If that is the point, then it's correct because a rifled musket began its service as a smoothbore and the barrel was later "rifled." The US 1855 was a "rifle musket."

[Savannah Republican Blues]

Re: Use of Model 1855 Rifled Muskets by Confederate Forces

Tell it the Savannah Militia Corps. that there were no 1855 "Rifled Muskets". The Savannah Militia Corps. received theirs in 1857. Type I, U.S. Rifled Musket, Model of 1855...

The... Savannah Republican Blues, Savannah Volunteer Guards, Oglethorpe Light Infantry, Phoenix Rifleman, Savannah City Light Guards and the Montgomery Guards were all outfitted with the 1855.

So, in Savannah, they were a VERY common small arm. Some eventually even made it into the hands of the Savannah River Squadron as well.

Regards,
Savannah Republican Blues

[MuleyGil]

Re: Use of Model 1855 Rifled Muskets by Confederate Forces

It may have been me. I dug this one in CS works near Rt. 460. It was very deep.

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Jim, a little bit of WD 40 will fix that old lock right up!

[Daniel]

Re: Use of Model 1855 Rifled Muskets by Confederate Forces

"Colonel Maney's 1st {Tennessee Inf}, and a portion of the 11th, totaling 1,119 enlisted men, were armed with rifle-muskets. (The arms in these two regiments account for all but 143 of the 732 U.S. Model 1855 rifle-muskets and 530 cadet rifle-muskets Tennessee had received under the 1808 Militia Act.) "Confederate Rifles and Muskets" by Murphy and Madus, page 64.

The Murphy and Madus book is breath taking in it's scope of what the Confederate arsenals had in their inventories There could be some more information regarding Confederate units using 1855's in this book.

Dan Stewart

[BobRoeder]

Re: Use of Model 1855 Rifled Muskets by Confederate Forces

Sam,

Tried sending this via PM, but anyway, I was checking out content of back issues of North South Trader and noticed there is an article in Vol. 34 No. 4 titled, "Model 1855 Harper's Ferry Speaks ... With a Southern Accent" by John J. Barone.

I don't know what the article actually has to say, but I remembered your thread here and thought if you can find a copy, or someone who has a copy to share, it might be of some help to you.

Cheers