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The Behavior of Soldiers Wounded in Battle by Kevin O'Beirne, Columbia Rifles

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  • #16
    Re: The Behavior of Soldiers Wounded in Battle by Kevin O'Beirne, Columbia Rifles

    "Just donít do it part II If youíre a big battle, have the announcer tell the public why you arenít demonstrating wounded/dead soldiers. I think the public will understand youíre doing it out of respect to the Boys of í61 and will enjoy the reenactment just the same. Radical idea and will probably never happen, but itís something Iíve thought about for years. "

    If you want to see this... go to Fort Ligonier in PA for their Ligonier days event. Its F&I but they do exactly this.
    Brad Ireland
    Old Line Mess
    4th VA CO. A
    SWB

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    • #17
      Re: The Behavior of Soldiers Wounded in Battle by Kevin O'Beirne, Columbia Rifles

      Originally posted by cprljohnivey View Post
      If you want to see this... go to Fort Ligonier in PA for their Ligonier days event. Its F&I but they do exactly this.
      Does it work?
      [COLOR="DarkRed"] [B][SIZE=2][FONT=Book Antiqua]Christopher J. Daley[/FONT][/SIZE][/B][/COLOR]

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      • #18
        Re: The Behavior of Soldiers Wounded in Battle by Kevin O'Beirne, Columbia Rifles

        It works as for what the state park there wants. They do a blow by blow over the lound speaker. They bill it as a tactical demonstration and stress that the reenactors are only demonstrating how the troops would have moved in battle, but that no hits are being taken. The crowd always applauds at the end. This year is the 250th anniversary. Oct. 9-12 same as Bristoe Station. Ft. Ligonier is east of Pittsburg a short drive form the turnpike.

        For my own personal opinon... I personally disagree with this style of tactical demonstratino as I think having folks shooting muskets at each other with no one at least sitting down or otherwise demonstrating some sort of casualty attrition teaches kids that firing guns has no consequences. That is my own opinion and does not represent the views of this television station...
        Last edited by cprljohnivey; 08-21-2008, 02:31 PM.
        Brad Ireland
        Old Line Mess
        4th VA CO. A
        SWB

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        • #19
          Re: The Behavior of Soldiers Wounded in Battle by Kevin O'Beirne, Columbia Rifles

          Being wounded myself and seeing others wounded servery there is not much screaming and kicking. The only yelling was for the Corpsman or Medic. Your adrenaline is in full swing and you do not feel the full brunt of the injury until after the fighting dies down. I really do not see a need to do more than lay on the ground when taking a hit. If there are people tending to you, you should then move a little if they ask. The best thing is when litter bearers are running up and down the field picking up bodys IMHO that is as close to real life as we need to get.

          Semper Fi to the other Jarheads who posted on this topic.
          Drew Ingram
          7th NJ CO A
          2nd Battalion
          6th Marines
          WIA: FALLUJAH, IRAQ

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: The Behavior of Soldiers Wounded in Battle by Kevin O'Beirne, Columbia Rifles

            Being wounded myself and seeing others wounded servery there is not much screaming and kicking. The only yelling was for the Corpsman or Medic. Your adrenaline is in full swing and you do not feel the full brunt of the injury until after the fighting dies down. I really do not see a need to do more than lay on the ground when taking a hit. If there are people tending to you, you should then move a little if they ask. The best thing is when litter bearers are running up and down the field picking up bodys IMHO that is as close to real life as we need to get.

            Semper Fi to the other Jarheads who posted on this topic.
            __________________
            Drew Ingram
            Hi,

            Thank you for your service to our country. Also, thank you for posting your knowledge on the subject of wounded soldiers, I have wondered about that for some time.
            Andrew Kasmar

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: The Behavior of Soldiers Wounded in Battle by Kevin O'Beirne, Columbia Rifles

              Wow,
              That was a good article, thanks Mr. O'Beirne! I definetely needed a little assistance in this area. It makes you think and some good thoughts of weighing the costs of war.

              I want to take my hat off to you men here who have served in our more recent conflicts. Im a romantic and probably could'nt handle real combat at all. Thank You, Gentlemen!
              Christopher E. McBroom, Capt.
              16th Ark. Infantry - 1st Arkansas Battalion, C.S.A.

              Little Rock Castle No. 1
              Order of Knights of the Golden Circle

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: The Behavior of Soldiers Wounded in Battle by Kevin O'Beirne, Columbia Rifles

                Having been severely injured in a bike accident several years ago. Broken leg, Massive bruising and a split head, this article made me think. In spite of being hit by the car, thrown through the air and smashing into the ground I felt no pain and in fact had gotten myself off the carriageway, located the remnants of my bike and reassured my Brother I was not dead before the extent of my injuries became apparent to me, then it hurt, Really hurt, so the adrenalin comment is bang on.
                It did make me think also about some accounts of soldiers messing up their own clothing looking for where they had been hit. Why did they not know? Adrenalin again?
                On the whole I would go with go down and lay still. I have only seen two people who have in any way been convincing wounded and one screamed in a way I would have never considered a grown man could and called for his mother, quite chilling, but exceptions.
                I, on the other hand, have seen many "Ham Actors" Portray it in a way that is very bad 1950 B movie and it is a tasteless joke so I would say go down and lay still.
                We are advised to do this for safety as well. Shooting over people laying on the ground face down is safer and they do not end up with a face full of falling crap.
                [B][I]Christian Sprakes
                19th Regimental Musician and Bugler[FONT="Impact"][/FONT][/I][/B]

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                • #23
                  Re: The Behavior of Soldiers Wounded in Battle by Kevin O'Beirne, Columbia Rifles

                  Originally posted by CJDaley View Post
                  In my first unit there was an event you can set your clock to. It happened every year at our annual event at Old Bethpage Village Restoration. It was a fight. Two guys would square off in a mock fight and roll around on the ground for several minutes while everyone stood around and cheered (or laughed). Finally after years of this, a veteran member of the unit (who was also a member of the NYPD) said ďHave you ever seen a real street fight? Have you ever been in the center of a bar brawl?Ē He went on to say that there is no way to fake a fight like that, too many people are milling about unconcerned, there are no real punches and the two combatants arenít trying to injure the other man. Thereís just no way to fake it.

                  Carry that into Ďtaking hitsí and I agree with him. Why fake something that can be so offensive, sacrilegious and disrespectful? I donít think anyone who takes a hit intentionally sets out to mock the wounded or dead, but I think it comes off that way to the public sometimes.

                  Solutions to taking hits:
                  • Just Sit Down In 1996 I helped organize a living history for the public and we had pre-planned hits. At certain points in the battle demo men were schedule to take hits, but instead of dropping to the ground in mock pain, they simply stopped marching forward and sat down on the ground ĎIndianí style. By the time the demo was over, the demo field was spattered with the Ďwoundedí who were sitting quietly. The impact on the public was just greater than if they had taken Ďhitsí.
                  • Just Sit Down Part II Another take on the first idea is to end your demo, then ask folks who are wounded (again with pre planned assignments) to simply step out of the ranks or to sit down. The public gets to see the impact of the battle on the original unit you are portraying without the play acting.
                  • Just don't do it Iíve participated in small picket posts events were the Ďno hit ruleí was in effect. Basically we did what the soldiers did 99% of the time in the 1860s. We set up CS and US lines a few hundred yards apart and just starred at each other for two days. No (or few) shots, no hits, no wounded, no flanking, no prisoners and no skirmishers. We simply changed guards every few hours, cooked our meals, tried not to freeze and watched the enemy lines. We still had tension as we knew the opposing side was out there someplace. Those are some of the best events Iíve ever attended, but this only works in small number (less than 50 per side)
                  • Just donít do it part II If youíre a big battle, have the announcer tell the public why you arenít demonstrating wounded/dead soldiers. I think the public will understand youíre doing it out of respect to the Boys of í61 and will enjoy the reenactment just the same. Radical idea and will probably never happen, but itís something Iíve thought about for years.
                  Sorry, but to me that sounds stupid. If your reenacting 1: You shouldn't have "dead" guys sitting quietly on the ground, they should act DEAD (lay on ground still and quiet). 2: If your going to reenact why the he** would you
                  just stare at each other?!?!? The public comes to see battles, excitement, smoke- not people staring at each other for 2 days. That just messes up the whole spirit of reenacting. When we reenact, we aren't scared of having a skirmish here and there. I feel the boys of '61 would want the public to know the truth- PEOPLE DIED
                  Pvt. Cody Dillman
                  147th PVI Co. G

                  We gave "three cheers", and our color bearer, Sergeant Henry, of Company C, who had taken off his cap and cheered, was just replacing it when a rebel shell killed him. His head was shot
                  away, and his brains were scattered over the old flag he had carried so long. Colonel Pardee, being close by picked up the colors, saying, "We will stick to the
                  old flag to the last, and if we go to Richmond, we will all go together."

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                  • #24
                    Re: The Behavior of Soldiers Wounded in Battle by Kevin O'Beirne, Columbia Rifles

                    I can certainly appreciate that those who have seen real combat have no desire to portray or see portayed the full brutality. However, most audience members have not had this experience. If we are going to give an accurate portrayal there must be some representation of injury and death, although Hollywood-style special effects are probably unneeded. I've seen something similar to the above-mentioned "Just Sit Down II", and it was very effective.

                    One other thought this raises is that perhaps it was not too uncommon for a relatively uninjured soldier to leave a battle with bullet holes in clothes, blankets, etc.; this is probably something to keep in mind when portraying a soldier who has seen action before?
                    Carter Adler

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                    • #25
                      Re: The Behavior of Soldiers Wounded in Battle by Kevin O'Beirne, Columbia Rifles

                      This was a very interesting article. Thank You for posting it.
                      Dan Stilley
                      Tater Mess/ Holmes Brigade
                      [COLOR="#0000FF"]Proud descendant of Elijah and Nathan Mosher- 3rd Iowa Volunteer Infantry
                      Henry Hollenbeck- 11th Kansas Cavalry Co. B
                      Greenberry Kelly- 2nd Iowa Infantry
                      John Riley Stilley- 128th Illinois Infantry
                      Thomas Freeborn-72nd Illinois Infantry Co. I[/COLOR] [COLOR="#FF0000"]Killed at Franklin, Tennessee[/COLOR]

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: The Behavior of Soldiers Wounded in Battle by Kevin O'Beirne, Columbia Rifles

                        Originally posted by Pvt. Sweetey View Post
                        Sorry, but to me that sounds stupid. If your reenacting 1: You shouldn't have "dead" guys sitting quietly on the ground, they should act DEAD (lay on ground still and quiet). 2: If your going to reenact why the he** would you
                        just stare at each other?!?!? The public comes to see battles, excitement, smoke- not people staring at each other for 2 days. That just messes up the whole spirit of reenacting. When we reenact, we aren't scared of having a skirmish here and there. I feel the boys of '61 would want the public to know the truth- PEOPLE DIED
                        I agree completely
                        Dan Stilley
                        Tater Mess/ Holmes Brigade
                        [COLOR="#0000FF"]Proud descendant of Elijah and Nathan Mosher- 3rd Iowa Volunteer Infantry
                        Henry Hollenbeck- 11th Kansas Cavalry Co. B
                        Greenberry Kelly- 2nd Iowa Infantry
                        John Riley Stilley- 128th Illinois Infantry
                        Thomas Freeborn-72nd Illinois Infantry Co. I[/COLOR] [COLOR="#FF0000"]Killed at Franklin, Tennessee[/COLOR]

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: The Behavior of Soldiers Wounded in Battle by Kevin O'Beirne, Columbia Rifles

                          Originally posted by 7thNJcoA View Post
                          Being wounded myself and seeing others wounded servery there is not much screaming and kicking. The only yelling was for the Corpsman or Medic. Your adrenaline is in full swing and you do not feel the full brunt of the injury until after the fighting dies down. I really do not see a need to do more than lay on the ground when taking a hit. If there are people tending to you, you should then move a little if they ask. The best thing is when litter bearers are running up and down the field picking up bodys IMHO that is as close to real life as we need to get.

                          Semper Fi to the other Jarheads who posted on this topic.
                          Semper Fi brother, and Agree with you 100%. When I got wounded (IED Detonation) I didnt even realize it till as I was calling in the IED report and started bleeding into my handset. I think the act of just dropping to the ground and laying down would get the point across. If someone wants to go all hollywood or see what it is really like, they can just go to a Recruiters office.
                          Daryl Noonan

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                          • #28
                            Re: The Behavior of Soldiers Wounded in Battle by Kevin O'Beirne, Columbia Rifles

                            When I was hit by the blast, It felt to me like someone had thrown a Handful of sand into the side of my face (we refer to it as peppering). I also took frag in my right arm which broke the ulna. But I didnt even realize this till I was calling in the report. I had a Garmin GPS on my right wrist and after I called in the grid I noticed a piece of frag sticking out of my arm. thats when I also noticed that I was bleeding from my face. I got medevaced due to the Arm wound to Germany for surgery, but thankfully can still count to 10 LOL
                            Daryl Noonan

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