John Henry Kurtz Auction

[FranklinGuardsNYSM]

Re: John Henry Kurtz Auction

My initial interpretation of the inner collar is that it was pieced by hand, and we're looking at the seam of where that occurred. I hope that this jacket will be on display at the auction and that we'll get some answers.

The second internal pocket is interesting. There looks to be a good amount of hand-work, such as on the pockets and the attachment of the lining and the bottom facings. The breast quilting also appears to be L-shaped and machined, as opposed to the SA's straight-and-handsewn.

[CompanyWag]

Re: John Henry Kurtz Auction

...One of my thoughts on this particular garment is that it was not intended to be an officer's garment but was instead an enlisted infantry jacket adapted for use by an officer (note the buttons)...

Absolutely. Officer's clothing would not show contractor or inspector marks unless it had been converted from enlisted clothing.

Paul McKee

[GreencoatCross]

Re: John Henry Kurtz Auction

John Wickett wins the prize. Does anyone have access to complete contract records for John T. Martin? Just how many of these infantry jackets were produced by his firm? One of my thoughts on this particular garment is that it was not intended to be an officer's garment but was instead an enlisted infantry jacket adapted for use by an officer (note the buttons).

It bears striking resemblance to the Schuylkill Arsenal infantry jacket but has some very noticeable differences. The cuffs appear to be non-functional and the buttonholes and buttons are simply for show (look real close in the photos and you will see this too, unless I'm going nuts). The lining looks like the silesia or alpaca that is used in uniform coats (not plain, striped, or plaid domet flannel as used at SA). Although we can't really tell with the photos, it appears to be machine sewn and lacks the extensive internal hand-sewing of an SA infantry jacket.

Anyone else have any thoughts on this?

[August77]

Re: John Henry Kurtz Auction

I thoroughly agree with the above statement. However I should caution that just because a certain example appears in a well established collection, it does not neccesarily mean it is either a commonly used pattern or even an original example. Because someone has money and collecting connections doesn't guarantee a turd can't turn up among the roses. The first sergeant's chevrons may deserve a closer inspection.

I completely agree! I guess I should have expanded in my post saying there is enough photographic evidence on top of a supposed original pair to show the use of 'straight' chevrons. Even without leaving the confines of that auction you have the CDV of Sgt. Bicknell (57661) and the tintype identified as Edwin Chamberlain (57685).

[CompanyWag]

Re: John Henry Kurtz Auction

Arched type chevrons were not the only style chevrons that existed and yes there were blue canteen covers (and chains existed especially on NY Depot canteens). I think we should be careful on 'this side of the hobby' as we tend to latch on to certain things just like the majority of mainstream reenactors do with different pieces of equipment. Although arched chevrons, jean/satinette/blanket canteen covers, etc. are correct, we begin to follow only one line of thinking and ultimately over represent certain items. Just my opinion though.

I thoroughly agree with the above statement. However I should caution that just because a certain example appears in a well established collection, it does not neccesarily mean it is either a commonly used pattern or even an original example. Because someone has money and collecting connections doesn't guarantee a turd can't turn up among the roses. The first sergeant's chevrons may deserve a closer inspection.

Paul McKee

[CompanyWag]

Re: John Henry Kurtz Auction

Now that you mention it, that is an interesting detail.

I just folded a piece of paper in half lengthwise and tucked in the end to match the angle of the collar. The result was a crease that matches the angled seam on each end of the inner collar with no apparent seam along any edge. Pretty neat detail. I wonder if the resulting seam was merely folded flat and sewn or was clipped to reduce bulk at the fold? I'd also like to peer into the worn hole on the edge to see the interfacing.

Paul McKee

[LibertyHallVols]

Re: John Henry Kurtz Auction

Hate to disappoint you Brian, but I lack the time to crawl through that entire listing to find what you're talking about. Wish I could drop a bank roll on it though!

See lot number 57508, JT Martin Jacket:

http://historical.ha.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=6015&Lot_No=57508

There's some interesting construction on the interior of that collar. It apears that the interior collar is simply folded to match the shape of the outer collar, rather than being cut from an identical pattern piece. Anyone else notice this?

[coastaltrash]

Re: John Henry Kurtz Auction

Hate to disappoint you Brian, but I lack the time to crawl through that entire listing to find what you're talking about. Wish I could drop a bank roll on it though!

[BenjaminLDavis]

Re: John Henry Kurtz Auction

Is it just me, or does that feller from the 15th Iowa bear a
more-than-passing resemblance to Holler?

[LibertyHallVols]

Re: John Henry Kurtz Auction

Advocate of blue canteen covers,

You ain't alone there, Brian!

I agree with you on the jacket, canteens, and several other points! My Federal impression(s) will be undergoing some changes based on what I've been seeing.

[bizzilizzit]

Re: John Henry Kurtz Auction

I guess it was too much to hope that the collection was to be donated. I am sure there are good reasons for the auction, but it is sad to see it broken up forever.

Before he passed, John Henry was working on a deal with the US Army to buy his entire collection - he did want to keep it together! The Army ran out of money last year and may have purchased it this year, but the collection was passed to his brother when he died, who decided to auction it off.
Elizabeth

[GreencoatCross]

Re: John Henry Kurtz Auction

All,

Totally agree with Mr. Lomas on this one. The items, ALL of the items, in the Kurtz collection are proof positive that "PEC" is a lot more varied and much more interesting than many think. In my opinion the mainstream ideals of "PEC" is "BALONEY." Really....how many original canteens are covered with Federal blankets anyway?

As I noticed a few months ago when this auction was first brought to my attention, there is a particular style of jacket made by a particular contractor that seems to turn previous conceptions about the garment upside-down. I will task Pat Landrum to find this garment!

Advocate of blue canteen covers,

[August77]

Re: John Henry Kurtz Auction

I as well noticed the "mainstream" style 1st Sgt stripes and also the canteens. There were several canteens that had corks that were attached by chains. Several also had covers of different colors ranging from light blue all the way to dark blue wool covers as well as covers of the "norm" that we are used to.
I am just wondering about some of these things and was hoping that someone could answer my questions. I think that someone has addressed the sgt. stripes already but I was wondering about the canteens as well.

Thanks for your help,
Andrew Schultz

Arched type chevrons were not the only style chevrons that existed and yes there were blue canteen covers (and chains existed especially on NY Depot canteens). I think we should be careful on 'this side of the hobby' as we tend to latch on to certain things just like the majority of mainstream reenactors do with different pieces of equipment. Although arched chevrons, jean/satinette/blanket canteen covers, etc. are correct, we begin to follow only one line of thinking and ultimately over represent certain items. Just my opinion though.

[Yellowhammer Rebel]

Re: John Henry Kurtz Auction

I as well noticed the "mainstream" style 1st Sgt stripes and also the canteens. There were several canteens that had corks that were attached by chains. Several also had covers of different colors ranging from light blue all the way to dark blue wool covers as well as covers of the "norm" that we are used to.
I am just wondering about some of these things and was hoping that someone could answer my questions. I think that someone has addressed the sgt. stripes already but I was wondering about the canteens as well.

Thanks for your help,
Andrew Schultz

[DougCooper]

Re: John Henry Kurtz Auction

Wow - the CS Captain's jacket http://historical.ha.com/common/view...No=57182#Photo

and Rosser's camp desk http://historical.ha.com/common/view...No=57140#Photo are very cool.

The number of New York State jacket photos and other western state jacket photos are superb -

check the Ohio photo http://historical.ha.com/common/view...No=57624#Photo

and the 15th Iowa photo, complete with a 17th Corps badge. http://historical.ha.com/common/view...No=57663#Photo