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Question about Enfield slings

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  • #46
    Re: Question about Enfield slings

    Roy Najecki who makes rev war items has a sling buckle that may be close to the brass british D one. It is brass buckle #EX. Take a look and see what you think. I do not have one to compare it to. Jim Hensley
    [FONT="Century Gothic"][/FONT][FONT="Georgia"][/FONT][FONT="Book Antiqua"]Jim Hensley[/FONT]
    Order of Heptasophs 1852

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    • #47
      Re: Question about Enfield slings

      Scott:
      Yes, you are right. The CS buckles (I have seen) were rectangular and the Massachusetts contract buckle slings were D-shaped. Interesting observation there. The key is getting the right buckle, the rest of it is pretty straightforward.
      Craig L Barry
      Editor, The Watchdog, a non-profit 501[c]3
      Co-author (with David Burt) Suppliers to the Confederacy
      Author, The Civil War Musket: A Handbook for Historical Accuracy
      Member, Company of Military Historians

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      • #48
        Re: Question about Enfield slings

        Thought I would post this for info. This buckle was found at Seven Pines in the same yard as a Va. staff.
        Last edited by Jimmayo; 05-30-2008, 09:27 AM.
        Jim Mayo
        Portsmouth Rifles, Company G, 9th Va. Inf.

        CW Show and Tell Site
        http://www.angelfire.com/ma4/j_mayo/index.html

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        • #49
          Re: Question about Enfield slings

          Yep, that is the Enfield sling buckle. Blockade Runner (BRI) sells a copy of it, and that is similar to what I have used in the past. The Civil War Musket has an identical picture to this one of a period sling buckle. They were apparently quite common as they are found "dug" at Confederate camp sites as well as battlefields.
          Craig L Barry
          Editor, The Watchdog, a non-profit 501[c]3
          Co-author (with David Burt) Suppliers to the Confederacy
          Author, The Civil War Musket: A Handbook for Historical Accuracy
          Member, Company of Military Historians

          Comment


          • #50
            Re: Question about Enfield slings

            Originally posted by Craig L Barry View Post
            Unless your US unit does an early war Massachusetts impression, the state purchased and issued full British accoutrements in mid-1861, a Federal Enfield would normally be issued a US rifle-musket leather sling along with other US accoutrements...the leather sling made for the US 1861 fits an Enfield just fine. The Columbia Rifles Research Compendium (2nd Edition Watchdog 2007) has a good chapter on US slings. In 1861 as part of a state contract, some Massachusetts units did get British accoutrements with buckle slings, but these were miniscule in number compared to the number of US slings issued. As I recall, the buckles on those Massachusetts contract Brit slings were "D" shaped. They also had the Enfield cartridge box and bayonet scabbard. The state of Massachusetts sold off their extra accoutrements to other states, so these buckle slings would not have been unknown in the North, just much less commonly encountered than the US variety. For a Federal impression, the best choice is probably a US rifle musket sling field modified to fit the P-53 Enfield.
            Apparently a number of other state units in Federal service purchased the Enfield in addition to Massachusetts. Sling aside, what accouterments would they typically have used? For example, I don't think the Springfield bayonet fit the Enfield, and the Enfield bayonet did not (again I don't think, correct me if I'm wrong) fit in the Springfield scabbard. Cap and cartridge box I could see being interchangeable but would these states have used the Enfield bayonet, scabbard and frog (and if the frog, are we talking the one WITH the buckle)?

            Finally, just to be clear, the correct Enfield sling would have had the rough-side out right? The picture of the reproduction from RD appears to be this way but hard to tell for sure.
            Ian Macoy
            Blue Ridge, VA

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            • #51
              Re: Question about Enfield slings

              Some good questions...Let's clarify:

              First, it is correct other Federal states had their own P-53 commercial contracts, some of which included full sets of accoutrements. Additionally, Massachusetts sold off their excess accoutrements, so other states issued them early in the war as well. The best known is perhaps the mid-1861 contract with the state of Massachusetts which I think was 10,000 sets. However, these are thousands against the millions of sets of US accoutrements issued during the Civil War-era.

              Full sets of accoutrements usually include the waist belt, cap pouch, cartridge box, sling and bayonet scabbard. However I believe the Massachusetts contract was for "stands of arms" which would include the rifle-musket, sling and bayonet. An important distinction.Slings were an item of ordnance and as such not considered “normal equipage” for replacement and procurement through the quartermaster department like tents, axes, clothes or food.

              A P-53 bayonet will definitely fit in a US pattern ("Gaylord") scabbard. Hundreds of thousands of Federal soldiers carried their Enfield bayonets just that way. Federal accoutrements were the norm for the Enfield in the US Army, the Brit accoutrements were the notable exception. Period photos show multiple examples of Enfield toting Federals with full US accoutrements.

              The so-called "Enfield" frog (with buckle) was designed for the two band rifle with the longer, heavier sword type bayonet. The British style rifle-musket frog would not normally have a buckle. Period photos of soldiers from the 44th Mass show them outfitted in full British accoutrements including Brit frogs/scabbards carrying P-53 Enfields equipped with buckle slings. IIRC, these were 9 month volunteers.

              As Geoff Walden, the sine quo non of the Civil War Enfield (at least in our hobby), points out earlier in this string the black British rifle sling is rough side out but waxed such that the finish is almost smooth.
              Last edited by Craig L Barry; 06-05-2007, 12:19 PM.
              Craig L Barry
              Editor, The Watchdog, a non-profit 501[c]3
              Co-author (with David Burt) Suppliers to the Confederacy
              Author, The Civil War Musket: A Handbook for Historical Accuracy
              Member, Company of Military Historians

              Comment


              • #52
                Bayonets and fitting.

                Originally posted by Ian M. View Post
                For example, I don't think the Springfield bayonet fit the Enfield, and the Enfield bayonet did not (again I don't think, correct me if I'm wrong) fit in the Springfield scabbard.
                The Springfield bayonet would not fit in the Enfield scabbard because of the brass throat and the shape of the blade. BUT, never say never. The first picture is an Enfield scabbard throat that has been modified to take a springfield bayonet blade. The enfield socket bayonet fits fine in a US scabbard.

                The second picture is interesting because it shows a dug enfield and a dug springfield both with springfield bayonets attached. These came from a CS position.

                It may be of further interest to some that out of 10 rifles dug in the vicinity of these two, these were the only ones with bayonets attached.
                Last edited by Jimmayo; 05-23-2008, 08:35 PM.
                Jim Mayo
                Portsmouth Rifles, Company G, 9th Va. Inf.

                CW Show and Tell Site
                http://www.angelfire.com/ma4/j_mayo/index.html

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