Mounted Infantry

[fortdonelsonrelics]

Re: Mounted Infantry

Wilder's Brigade was granted the order from Rosecrans in Feb 1863 to provide horses for his brigade. All of the regiments (17th & 72nd Ind, 98th Ill) all voted for horses, the 75th Ind voted against (they would leave Wilder's on May 6th replaced with the 123rd ILL). They would still be recieving horses through March.

Blue Lighting: " The 72nd, along with 17th Indiana and 98th Illinois, also were issued standard Federal cavalry jackets with reinforced trousers. " (They did remove the yellow trim to disassociate themselves to regular cavalry.

Instead of sabers they were issued two-foot-long hatchets.

The 17th Indiana Scouts privately purchased Henry's and all were armed with them by May of 1863.

Most all of the regiment was armed with the Spencer rifle through May 31st. The 123rd was armed through June.

According to the quartermaster records, not every man had a Spencer. You still see Springfields RM, Colt Revolving Rifles, Burnsides in some numbers.

John Walsh

[Spencer Guy]

Re: Mounted Infantry

John
Didnt' Wilder's Brigade have Spencer Rifles when they were mounted?
Terry

[fortdonelsonrelics]

Re: Mounted Infantry

OK Since I don't have access to uniform records I was wondering if Mounted Infantry units drew mounted trousers or was there recod of both infantry and cav trusers used?
Andy Miller
1st CAV Cav

In some cases I believe it would be in relation to the time period and regiment.

For example, in the case of Wilder's Brigade, these guys were actually infantry when they were formed and not mounted until later. In fact the men voted on whether or not they wanted to be as such or not. If you read their history, you will find they were issued all infantry accoutrements and weapons. So there is no doubt in my mind they had infantry trousers in the beginning.

However, my speculation is that after the unit had been mounted for some time, they would probably acquire them (cav trousers), especially new recruits that would reenlist post 1863.

In fact, there are many images of them wearing regulation cavalry jackets with the trim torn off to seperate themselves as much as possible for being associated with cavalry, so there is no doubt they were recieving or had access to cavalry uniforms.

Keep in mind however, this is regarding Wilder's only and should not be a rule for all mounted infantry regiments, especially those formed later in the war.

John Walsh

[AZFarrier]

Re: Mounted Infantry

OK Since I don't have access to uniform records I was wondering if Mounted Infantry units drew mounted trousers or was there recod of both infantry and cav trusers used?
Andy Miller
1st CAV Cav

[RJSamp]

Re: Mounted Infantry

In the Diary of SGT George Hand, Co G 1st CAL Infantry (The Civil War in Apache Land, Copywrite 1996) he makes mention of his company being partilly converted to Mounted Infantry...Quote: AUG 22, 1863. We are now organized into a Cavalry and Infantry co., 21 men mounted on mules and we have the stable call and water call added to out list. (For now)

Even better! We have often wondered which set(s) of bugle calls Mounted Infantry like the 9th IN , 9th IL, etc. adopted......
Our guess is that they added a few necessary Cavalry Calls, ala GILHAM'S.

Here's proof of that for this Specific regiment.



The men knew the Infantry Calls....so did the bugler....mount them up, use the same calls plus a few extras (Stables, Watering, Boots and Saddles, To Horse).

NICE FIND, Thanks!

RJ Samp

[JimCarrol]

Re: Mounted Infantry

I have a picture of 6 men, mounted with Infantry rifles.. If I can find it, I will post it here....

[fortdonelsonrelics]

Re: Mounted Infantry

Here are a few notes to ponder.

p179 Arming The Suckers, Ken Baumann: "For for Cavalry-Ordanance Office-.....Dated: December 15th, 1863.

Weapon: "Spencer I think its the best arm I have ever seen."

Sabres: "We do not use them."

Accoutrements: "We still have the same accoutrements we first drew. Could not draw new ones without new arms. They are badly worn, the brass tips are off many of the bayonett scabbards, the Spencer bayonett is to small for the scabbard, and they are apt to loose out in riding."

Ammunition: "...The cartridges should be filled with the very best powder-we cannot compete with some of the rebel guns at long range."


92nd ILL Q.O.S. Company I, 3rd Quarter 1864:
U.S. R.M. 1855-1863 .58 1
Enfield Rifles .577 2
Burnside Carbines .54 107
Spencer Carbines .52 465

98th ILL Q.O.S.
There are revolvers listed in small amounts, most likely officer's side arms. To support this there are two Colt Navy revolvers that are I'd to two Captains in the 98th.

No where in the 92, 98, or 123 is there listed any cav sabers. There are however Musician and NCO swords listed in very small amounts (1 or 2), so the swords were listed if any were issued.

John Walsh
FDR

[boozie]

Re: Mounted Infantry

The book "Blue Lightning" deals with the formation of the brigade and their actions at Hoovers Gap and Chickamauga. There is no mention of any type of sabers or pistols that I recall, being carried by the men. If you read on to the end of the book you will see that Wilders men were absorbed into the cavalry service early 1864. This is the most likely time when other weapons might have been issued.

In the diary of Ambrose Remley of the 72nd Indiana, he gets a small Colt revolver (non-issue) in Tennessee during 1863 after they are mounted and he sends it home for his family to put in a safe place for when he returns home. Once they had their seven shot Spencer's everything else was extra baggage. He also writes of fighting dismounted several times during the1864 Atlanta Campaign. When Sherman went on his march to the sea, the brigade had to give up the horses and mules to "Uncle Billy's" men.

[Matthew.Rector]

Re: Mounted Infantry-more notes on the 17th Ind Vol Inf (Mounted)

Found some more information regarding the use of sabers by the Seventeenth Indiana Infantry (Mounted). During Wilson's Cavalry Raid to Selma, Alabama, four companies from the Seventeenth Indiana took part in a saber charge. (April 1, 1865)

The War of the Rebellion: a compilation of the official records of the Union and Confederate armies. / Series 1 - Volume 49 (Part I)
page 455


From Col. Jacob C. Vail, Seventeenth Indiana (Mounted) Infantry, report of operations April 1-2.

Here they made a stand and offered a good deal of resistance to ourfarther advance. Four companies of this regiment, being armed with sabers (Companies C, G, H, and I), were ordered forward by Col. A. O. Miller, commanding First Brigade, Second Division, Cavalry Corps, to charge the enemy. Lieut. Col. F. White took command of them and moved forward, charging the enemy, who were engaging our skirmishers, overtaking Patterson's regiment, and running past them, sabering anumber of them. Dashing on, they struck the enemy's line of battle about one mile from where the charge commenced; charged on and cut through them under a fierce fire, and reached the enemy's artillery (fourpieces), which had been firing on them as they advanced.

[Matthew.Rector]

Re: Mounted Infantry

Wilder's Brigade ("Blue Lightning") a good book on mounted infantry, they generally fought in looser/single rank formations due to firepower (no need for shoulder to shoulder double ranks). No Sabers. Dropped the Fifers and Drummers and went to Bugle.

The 17th Indiana carried Spencer rifles and a few Spencer carbines, no revolvers or sabers, infantry belts and boxes, and horse equipments including spurs.

Just as an interesting note to these observations, I have a letter written by my great-great-great-great uncle, Pvt. William G. Wright, Co. H, 17th Indiana, in which he writes to his sister on 21 July 1865....

"...and tell him to write and tell me if he would like for me to bring my Gun and Sabre and Belt home for him if he wants it I will bring it for him as we Boys can buy them for almost nothing. If he wants them I will by them."

[Andrew German]

Re: Mounted Infantry

This is not a comprehensive survey, but I can add a bit of detail on mounted infantry equipments from the quarterly ordnance reports.

I checked the third quarter (September) 1864 reports for a few regiments I knew of. In the process I came across a couple more, such as the 2nd NY Mounted Rifles, who were dismounted in front of Petersburg, and the 31st Massachusetts Mounted Rifles stationed in New Orleans and vicinity. I did not see listings for the 2nd or 3rd NC.

However, the 16th Indiana Mounted Rifles carried Springfields and Remington revolvers. They had infantry boxes and belts, no sabers, but regulation horse equipments including spurs.

The 17th Indiana carried Spencer rifles and a few Spencer carbines, no revolvers or sabers, infantry belts and boxes, and horse equipments including spurs.

The 87th Illinois Mounted Rifles carried Enfields as well as Colt and Remington revolvers, infantry belts and boxes, no sabers, but regulation horse equipments including spurs.

The 92nd Illinois Mounted Rifles had Burnside and Spencer carbines, with no revolvers or sabers.

A systematic review could be undertaken, but for now I hope this adds a bit of detail .

Andrew German

[AZFarrier]

Re: Mounted Infantry

I was witing for a post like this. I have been forced to conceive the idea of abandoning my Cavalry impression and creating a mounted infantry impression. Here on the fronteer many infantry units were partially converted to mounted infantry, due to the distance and shortage of Mounted troops.
In the Diary of SGT George Hand, Co G 1st CAL Infantry (The Civil War in Apache Land, Copywrite 1996) he makes mention of his company being partilly converted to Mounted Infantry...Quote: AUG 22, 1863. We are now organized into a Cavalry and Infantry co., 21 men mounted on mules and we have the stable call and water call added to out list. End quote.
This passage represents the flexablness of these western units in order to complete their mission. Through out the marh of the California Column there are references to mounted infantry messengers and NCO's traveleing to and from Ft Yuma to the Indian Villages (Near Present Day Sacaton. AZ).
Andy Miller
1st CAL Cav (For now)

[fortdonelsonrelics]

Re: Mounted Infantry

The worn spot is a definate trait of all of the Wilder's Spencers I have seen and held. Many of Wilder's men, including the two known mounted images I have seen indicate they had a carbine boot on the saddle which accounts for the wearing of the fore stock. Many of them would wear a carbine sling and slide the gun down the 'boot' while riding.

John Walsh
FDR

[RJSamp]

Re: Mounted Infantry

My GGG Grandfather served in the 3rd Tennessee Mounted Infantry (Lillard's) and he came home from the war with his sabre and pistol. The pistol was traded for something or another over the years, many moons before I came to be, and the sword was stolen when I was younger or it would be in my collection. I still have his side knife, .36 caliber bullet mold, powder measure, a small percussion cap box, and powder flask.

An original Wilder's Brigade rifle was on display at the ILL Veteran's Museum in Springfield. Mark Whitlock let me stare at it for a few hours. It's the same rifle that's on the cover of Blue Lighting. You can see where the Pommel has worn the forestock down from days/months of riding and resting the rifle crosst ways on the pommel....and the 'carbine' sling ring is still screwed into the side of the butt/offside cheek face of the stock.....an obvious 'field' alteration to allow for better control of a rifle whilst mounted and moving.

[mslaird]

Re: Mounted Infantry

My GGG Grandfather served in the 3rd Tennessee Mounted Infantry (Lillard's) and he came home from the war with his sabre and pistol. The pistol was traded for something or another over the years, many moons before I came to be, and the sword was stolen when I was younger or it would be in my collection. I still have his side knife, .36 caliber bullet mold, powder measure, a small percussion cap box, and powder flask.