Mid-19th Century Religion

[F. J.]

Mormonism is not Christian

So, from period information, I'd have to opine that the Mormons were not, in fact, Protestants, nor were they looking to be called or accepted as Protestants. Christian, yes. Protestant/Catholic, no.

(Emphasis mine.)


Ms. Clark,

I would like to point out that Mormonism certainly is not a Christian denomination, but rather a completely separate religion. Below I have posted links to articles I found that discuss the lack of Christianity within Mormonism, starting with "Is Mormonism Christian?". The second article is "If all Mormons are Christians, then all Christians are Mormon", which discusses how Mormonism claims to be a part of Christianity while rejecting Christian doctrine, and the third article is "A Comparison Between Christian Doctrine and Mormon Doctrine".

Is Mormonism Christian?
If all Mormons are Christians, then all Christians are Mormon
Comparison Between Christian Doctrine and Mormon Doctrine

[FortyRounder]

Re: Mid-19th Century Religion

"Most definitely---the modern United Methodist would not recognize the "Shouting Methodist" of the mid-19th century, either in worship style or in theology."

My family has deep roots in Upstate New York, specifically Jefferson County, which even in the 19th century was called a remote, backwoods region. Charles Finney was born there, and it was part of the area in Western new York that became known as the Burned-Over District due to the frequent religious revivals that swept over the population during the Second Great Awakening. I came across an account by a person who grew up in the 1860s and '70s, witnessing the intensely active religious life of the region: http://jefferson.nygenweb.net/methodism.htm. I was surprised to see him mention one of my ancestors as belonging to the "shouting methodists" who could supposedly be heard at prayers from a halfmile away. Northern New York was mostly settled by New Englanders who brought their intense faith with them.

More on the Shouting Methodists here: http://www.spiritjournals.com/Specia...methodists.htm

[FortyRounder]

Re: Mid-19th Century Religion

"I'd like to know to what extent 19th century Americans were aware of Eastern religions. If anyone can point me to some sources I'd appreciate it very much.

Thanks,

Kim Caudell"

Beadle's Dime Book of Practical Etiquette (1860) quoted the Koran in urging people to not mock others.

[Pvt. PARTS]

Re: Mid-19th Century Religion

Good evening all,
I'm very happy to see that this thread is already in existence. I was wondering if anyone might know of any resources pertaining to Jews fighting in the name of states rights; particularly Mississippian Jews. I found a few sources that referenced "Jewish regiments" in Louisiana and Georgia. But I haven't found anything like that for Mississippi. I do realize that I'm replying to a post in the civilian forum. Any information regarding Jewish Civilians in the south would be very useful as well. If anyone might be of help, it would be greatly appreciated.
Many Thanks,
Pvt. Nathan Hoffmann

[Spinster]

Re: Mid-19th Century Religion

No such garment was common throughout the various Protestant denominations. For the more mainline Protestants--Methodists, Brethern, Presbyterian, a certain conservative/reserved demeanour and conservative style of dress would be more common.

For those of Methodist persuasion, there are accounts which remark that while the circuit riding preacher traveled with a trunk as would any educated gentleman, it was filled with books instead of clothing.

Protestants, by the very nature of their theological underpinnings, tended not to wear religious symbols on their clothing. A well worn Bible or hymnody might be close at hand, but with plain leather covers. For some denominations, the preacher wore black robes for Sunday Services, but even this symbol was utilized in only a few denominations.

[jake.koch]

Re: Mid-19th Century Religion

How much, if any trouble would have been caused in a regiment that had mixed Protestant and Catholic soldiers,for example an all immigrant German regiment. The ones I know of specifically, the 9th and 107th Ohio had men that had immigrated from every corner of Germany, so it might be safe to assume that there would be a mix of Protestants and Catholics. Does anyone know of that causing any trouble within units or know of any sources that might discuss it? I haven't read anything that would suggest it, but with some of the anti-Catholic politics of the time would that have been a big deal within a unit?

Jake Koch

[Mark B]

Re: Mid-19th Century Religion

Would you have been able to identify on sight a protestant minister? Priests wear a collar and a vest most of the time and some Episcopalians and Presbyterians...was there a standard garb?

[Clsinclair]

Re: Mid-19th Century Religion

One has only to read the obituaries during the Civil War compared to today. I have heard many times that the Bible Belt of the South was born because of the Civil War.

October 8, 1862 - Died at the residence of Henry Hancock, Esq., on the 17th day of Sept. 1862, Mrs. Sarah B., consort of H.J. Hancock, Esq., Clerk of the Court of Compy Pleas, for Lancaster District, after a lingering attack of Typhoid Pneumonia. The deceased was deprived at an early age in life (18) of both Mother and Father, and she at an early period of life connected herself with that branch of the Church known as the Associate Reformed Presbyterian, of which Church she lived and died a consistent member. The decased leaves a Husband and an infant Son, to mourn their loss; but from evidence upon her dying bed, their loss is her eternal gain.

*1st Lt. H.J. Hancock of the 17th SC was fighting the battle of South Mountain on September 17th. He would die on January 1, 1864 from Typhoid Pneumonia

April 22, 1863 - Departed this life on Friday, the 10th inst., Mary E. Hancock, daughter of B.R. and N.M. Hancock, aged 16 years 4 months and 10 days. Mary had been a member of the Morian Baptist church for three years and 6 months, in her last moments she professed to be in the full triumps of faith. . . She leaves behind a father and mother, four brothers and three sisters to mourn her loss.

* B.R. Hancock was a member of the 12th SC and his mother died the same year and his wife died in 1869. All of Typhoid Pneumonia.

Almost all the obituaries of the period in this area were religious in content.

Regards,

Claude Sinclair

[styler]

Re: Mid-19th Century Religion

The use of the KJV is only assumable in those churches, of English heritage.

Excellent point. Germans, for example, were one of the largest immigrant groups. I believe at the time of the Civil War the majority of German immigrants were protestant rather than Roman Catholic, mostly Lutheran. The Seminary in Gettysburg was Lutheran. There were also Lutheran churches associated with Scandanavian immigrants, but they were fewer and further between - much more related to specific communities.

Link to page with Protestant Episcopal Book of Common Prayer. Note the BCP of the Confederacy.

I should also add that in an 1855 enumeration Baptists outnumbered Presbyterians about 2:1. The source is attributed to Robert Baird's "State and Prospect of Religion in America." London, 1855. While that work of his is not found on Google Books (a good source for primary resources you'll run across in footnotes), others are, including "The Progress and Prospects of Christianity in the United States." London, 1851. A very interesting read! When I have the opportunity I'll transcribe the numbers from his later work.

[Stu_Sac]

Re: Mid-19th Century Religion

I would like to add a couple of thoughts to the discussion here. The original question posted to start this thread was a request to examine the context of religion in the mid-19th century. This is a very interesting question and one that I don’t think we honor well, in most of our impressions. I tend to believe this is one of those areas, where our current cultural assumptions, cross over into the impression we are trying to build. As we look at the period, there are several points we have to consider.

First, to a great extent religious practice in mid-19th Century America, was driven by regional, community and ethnic factors. Therefore, if we are looking at a specific impression, we need to consider the “home ground” of that impression. Also as a part of this discussion we also have to remember that, the Second Great Awakening ended in the 1830’s, which by age would put it common memory for some of us. This movement had a great impact on the on the overall penetration of religion into common life, both in the extent and degree that it touched members of society. Then building on some of the ideas germinated during this movement, the Third Great Awakening had just begun in the late 1850’s and in some ways interrupted by the Civil War. All of these societal factors would play into an individual’s practice of observance.

In a quick glance, the 1860 census lists 29 separate sects (denomination) and a thirtieth grouping of “Minor Sects.” As we look at the listing here, I have to note that the various types of Baptists, account for seven entries on this list, followed by the Presbyterians with four. The largest unique reporting group appears to be the Methodists, both in terms of numbers and reported property value. This is followed by the aggregate totals for the Baptists and Presbyterians, each of whom appears to have totals about 2/3’s that of the Methodists. The Roman Catholic totals look to be considerably smaller, about 1/5 the values recorded by the Methodists. One other interesting point to note in looking at this list, is that the Shakers are specifically listed and the Mormons are not. Again, I have to stress that not all of these groups were present in each community or area in the 1860s.

With reference to the KJV, I would argue slightly differently. I will grant that given the American cultural heritage 1860’s, it may have been the most widely distributed version of the bible. However, it was not universal in use. The use of the KJV is only assumable in those churches, of English heritage. Churches coming from other traditions, especially if serving first generation congregations, would tend to use other bible versions. Then in terms of regular practice, many sects have supplemental books, used to order the service and therefore, make up an integral part of the unique practice of that group. For example, the Protestant Episcopal Church has the Book of Common Prayer, which provides framework for all forms of worship, within that church. (I will note that the correct BCP version for our period is the 1845 Standard Edition.)

Off the top of my head this morning, I know that at least three of these denominations had national convocations, by the time of the Civil War. These are the Methodists, Presbyterian, and the Protestant Episcopal. All of these groups splintered to one degree or another just before the Civil War, along north/south regional lines. So clearly, there were some national structures in place by the Civil War period.

The daunting thing is that this is just starting point, to consider this question. I might also suggest While God Is Marching On, The Religious World of Civil War Solders by Steven Woodworth; Univ. of Kansas Press 2001, as an interesting book to consider as this questions is examined. While this book focuses mainly on the military experience, there are some touch points to the society as a whole.

I am looking forward to seeing this thread develop further.

Stu Howe

[Rev]

Re: Mid-19th Century Religion

As a result of my job, a minister, I find this a fascinating subject. In school it is an area that I tried to focus my studies on in history classes when I could. I will try to find some of the bibliographies which I compiled all those years ago. They contained some excellent references.

In my opinion, the impact of religious view upon the period is one of the most overlooked aspects of the mid-nineteenth century in the LH/Reenacting world. The main two theological views of Christian salvation helped to form two very different societies and played a role in the secession of the South.

I've only scanned this thread, but here are some observations:

John Newton: He was actually well known among the clergy of the period. Especially among the Reformed clergy.

Darwin: Had little influence except among higher academicians at the time of the War.

Islam: Americans were relatively aware of Islam and its impact upon history. It was a very rare thing, however, to know Muslims (Musselmans) in this hemisphere. From what I remember from my studies they were viewed as a backward, violent people.

Very interesting thread.

[ElizabethClark]

Re: Mid-19th Century Religion

Looking at that early background informed the thinkers of the 1800s, though, so I'd consider them on-topic.

[amity]

Re: Mid-19th Century Religion

Yes, the British were lightyears ahead of the U.S. in thinking about "the family of man." The early hymnists I love to read about were part of a large circle centered around Selina, Countess of Huntingdon, who though a slave owner herself largely funded Olaudah Equiano's first published accounts of slavery, plus works by Phyllis Wheatley and others. John Newton, author of Amazing Grace, was a former slaver who made a large impact in British thinking about slavery and race. But we are way out of our time period, mid-1700s! Too bad these people weren't more widely read in the U.S. in that era.

Re: Mid-19th Century Religion

Personally I enjoy one of the greatest ironies - the beginnings of the science of genetics is credited to an Austiran monk, Gregor Mendel, who took the time to observe and mix pea plants in order to trace their inherited features in 1864.

[Hank Trent]

Re: Mid-19th Century Religion

It seems it took awhile for the lines to be drawn on The Origin of Species. It was not necessarily seen as "hostile to religion" for some years.

That fits with what I've found on the subject also.

Here's a bit of trivia, though. The idea of men being descended from apes was kicking around decades before Origin of the Species, let alone Descent of Man. Darwin's work was more about how it happened, than the fact that it happened.

Several writers, who have pleased themselves with describing what they call a regular gradation or chain of beings, represented man only as a superior kind of monkey; and place the unfortunate African as the connecting link between the superior races of mankind and the orang-ou-tang; they deny, in short, that he is generically distinguished from monkeys. Such an opinion might reasonably be expected from the slave-merchant who traffics in human blood, and from a West Indian Negro driver, who uses his fellow-creature worse than brutes; but we should not think of finding it defended by the natural historian, and we shall not hesitate to assert, that it is as false philosophically, as the moral and political consequences, to which it would lead, are shocking and detestable.

http://books.google.com/books?id=AesIk8M0kNYC&pg=PT212

That strangely anachronistic-sounding passage is from the British Encyclopedia, 1809!

The name most associated with pre-Darwin origin of species was Lamarck, now not much more than a humorous footnote in discussions of evolution, for proposing the idea that giraffes developed long necks by stretching upward, then passing that acquired trait to their offspring. At the time, though, Lamarck was the best thing going, and he was closer to being right than anything else being proposed.

But as Terre said, there just didn't seem to be a general science vs. religion outcry about any of it, the way there would be in the 1870s and beyond. In fact, overall, there seemed to be more of a sense that science worked hand-in-hand with religion to reveal what god had designed.

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net