Hobnail inquiry...

[WoodenNutmeg]

Can anyone say, with any level of certainty, whether or not the hobnails pictured below (see attachment) are historically accurate for the time period (mid-19th century)?

[coffey]

Re: Hobnail inquiry...

From what I have researched they are, and most men that did have them had about 10 to 15 in each brogan

[WoodenNutmeg]

Re: Hobnail inquiry...

You've seen photographic/physical evidence of the hobnails pictured above? If I may inquire, could you possibly reference the source? I agree with you as per the number of hobnails used, as in my own findings, 10-21 have been the average amount placed on an enlisted man's shoes.

[-Jesse-]

Re: Hobnail inquiry...

the ones that MB&S use are similar to this...

[DougCooper]

Re: Hobnail inquiry...

I hate to be a bit skeptical here, but can anyone share these MB&S archives and or any research with a coherent sample size on the subject? Just a quick glance through photos of surviving original shoes (EoG, other museum samples, etc) shows precious few with hobnails and of those, very few nails per shoe (or holes where nails were). The famous "star" shoes of the Union soldier and the imported English shoes owned by a CS soldier would appear to be a great exception, rather than the norm...or not. We just don't know enough to get as specific as this thread attempts to do.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Hobnail inquiry...

Hallo!

Sight unseen, and provenance, history, or archeological association unknown... I would say it would help to see a "hobnail" or two from the other end as to how the shank and head were made as to what era or period they might be from. Etc., etc. (as to differentiate it from a tack or upholstery nail)

"From what I have researched they are, and most men that did have them had about 10 to 15 in each brogan."

IMHO...

That "hobnails" exist is not in question- Roman legionaires had them. I have an unopened box from 1914.

"... and most men that did have them had about 10 to 15 in each brogan."

Being the AC Forum, a statement like that requires or begs the research that would support such a universal pronoucement that would seem to fly in the face of the Historical and/or Archeological Record.

Others' mileage will vary...

Curt

[J.H.Berger]

Re: Hobnail inquiry...

There is a pair of unworn brogans in the Atlanta History Centre which has hobnails like the ones pictured attached to it. Unfortunately I do not ahve a picture of the shoes but remember clearly because it it is so unique as it has hobnails and heel plates which seemed to be not the normal way as far as I can tell from pictures/photos and specimen in museums that I have seen so far. These nails are still made by DB Gurney in Mass. contact them for more info about when they started to make them as DB Gurney is in business since 1825.

[Charles Heath]

Re: Hobnail inquiry...

If you happen to drop by D.P. Newton's "White Oak Museum" in Falmouth, then you can easily view a number of other footwear appliances in the form of dug relics. Just take a left oblique at the section of original corduroy road by the artillery piece in the schoolhouse/museum lobby, and these items are near the pocket knife remains. A good number of these items are not reproduced.

Darn, I'll be near there today, but probably won't have a chance to stop by. Double darn.

[RN_PAC]

Re: Hobnail inquiry...

I've always been interested in the appearance of the footwear in the ubiquitous casualty photographs from the Rose Farm vicinity. One finding is what appears to be nails around the periphery of the soles of at least a couple of the dead; two closups are below. They seem to be way too big to be pegs, but I suppose they may be nails employed to actually construct the shoe versus hobnails per se. Nevertheless, I have tinkered with the idea of nailing my next pair of shoes like this, if practicable.

I added on a closeup of a very interesting modified shoe...we read about shoes being slashed over blisters on long marches all the time; this guy seems to have employed a more systematic form of slashing that might be the ultimate fate of my 20-year-old, fast-deteriorating first pair of shoes that are still seeing service (after many, many re-sole-ings)

[WoodenNutmeg]

Re: Hobnail inquiry...

There is a pair of unworn brogans in the Atlanta History Center which has hobnails like the ones pictured attached to it. [...I] remember clearly because it it is so unique as it has hobnails and heel plates which seemed to be not the normal way as far as I can tell from pictures/photos and specimen in museums that I have seen so far.

Very interesting, Jan...thank you.

I've always been interested in the appearance of the footwear in the ubiquitous casualty photographs from the Rose Farm vicinity. One finding is what appears to be nails around the periphery of the soles of at least a couple of the dead; two closeups are below. They seem to be way too big to be pegs, but I suppose they may be nails employed to actually construct the shoe versus hobnails per se. Nevertheless, I have tinkered with the idea of nailing my next pair of shoes like this, if practicable.

I added on a closeup of a very interesting modified shoe...we read about shoes being slashed over blisters on long marches all the time; this guy seems to have employed a more systematic form of slashing [...]

Great images, Tom...thank you.

[WoodenNutmeg]

Re: Hobnail inquiry...

I have subsequently attached another photo which includes the soles/heels, as the first image was more or less to allow for analysis of the hobnail itself, close-up.

[J.H.Berger]

Re: Hobnail inquiry...

But these are not original shoes Bryan.
Well concerning the single row of hobnails around the rim of the sole, I have a guess. In my opinion which I cannot prove yet through originals I could examine, these hob nails are attached to sewn soles not pegged soles. This would make sense as the hob nails would protect the thread. As far as I could figure out so far US made CW shoes with sewn soles did not have the thread being inlaid in a little cut in the sole but the thread was rather on top of the leather( hard to explain in English).
I make sewn shoes myself and when this thread is worn away they start to loose the sole. So if you protect this vulnerable area with hobnails you lengthen the life of your soles. The stitching of the sole is exactely at the outer line of the sole where the hob nails are attached on the original photo.
It would be interesting to find a pair of original shoes that have this feature.
The nails used on the shoes in the photo were definitely of the round head version not like the flower head version this thread was started about.

[RN_PAC]

Re: Hobnail inquiry...

Well concerning the single row of hobnails around the rim of the sole, I have a guess. In my opinion which I cannot prove yet through originals I could examine, these hob nails are attached to sewn soles not pegged soles. This would make sense as the hob nails would protect the thread. As far as I could figure out so far US made CW shoes with sewn soles did not have the thread being inlaid in a little cut in the sole but the thread was rather on top of the leather( hard to explain in English).

Actually, you explained that very well, and that would appear to make sense. I couldn't work out how the life of the sole would be particularly lengthened by sparing the whole middle of the sole of nails. Admittedly, can't call it a conclusion, but an interesting hypothesis nonetheless.

[WoodenNutmeg]

Re: Hobnail inquiry...

But these are not original shoes Bryan.

I am more than aware, sir; though I appreciate you pointing that out, as I failed to make that distinction known to viewers initially.

[J.H.Berger]

Re: Hobnail inquiry...

Actually I am considering to offer my sewn shoes with this rwo of hobnails. It would have some advantages compared with nailing the hole sole. Although a completely nailed sole would protect the whole sole and gives you a better "grip" if you have to climba a slope etc. me and some of my pards have made the experience that after you have marched for a while you get some pressure feeling under the ball of the foot. This is especially true if you walk on hard surfaces. Now hard surfaces were not that common in America during the CW, I am talking about paved roads, they were more likely dirt roads. Now if you have the rim reinforced by hob nails they still can give you a better "grip" and protect the stitching but on the other side leave the ball free of the pressure points caused by the hob nails.
I will try this out!