Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Masonic insignia on uniforms

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Masonic insignia on uniforms

    Gentlemen, Brethren,

    I've seen sutlers always offering Masonic insignia and emblems...but did anyone ever wear these on their uniforms? I've done quite a bit of googe-ing and haven't really found any Masons flashing their square and compass on their jackets or other articles of their uniforms.

    Just thought I'd ask...


    Brian
    Brian Shajari
    Tolerance Lodge 1165 AF&AM, Texas
    Co. L, 1st Texas Volunteer Infantry Regiment Lone Star Rifles
    Hawaii American Civil War Roundtable Group


    Proud descendent of: PVT William B. Wales, Louisiana Crescent Regiment
    and Pvt. James Groves, Jr., Co. K, 6th Louisiana Cavalry

  • #2
    Re: Masonic insignia on uniforms

    The short answer is 'No' with regards to the numerous variations of embroidered square and compass' that you see at so many sutler stalls.

    What did period Brother's wear that might indicate membership in the fraternity? A review of the few period writings that describe one brother recognizing another (other than a verbal, or manual signal), usually spoke of such things as watch fobs, or a small square and compass sewn into the inside lining of a jacket, or on the reverse side of a lapel, or on the cuff of the jacket or shirt sleeve. These sewn, or home embroidered symbols where likely no larger that your thumbnail. I have heard reference to one of two period images of men wearing pinky rings with what appears to be a square and compass. Discretion was likely the rule of order with regards to physical emblems.
    Brian Hicks
    Widows' Sons Mess

    Known lately to associate with the WIG and the Armory Guards

    "He's a good enough fellow... but I fear he may be another Alcibiades."

    “Every man ever got a statue made of him was one kinda sumbitch or another. It ain’t about you. It’s about what THEY need.”CAPTAIN MALCOLM REYNOLDS

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Masonic insignia on uniforms

      Originally posted by BrianHicks View Post
      The short answer is 'No' with regards to the numerous variations of embroidered square and compass' that you see at so many sutler stalls.

      What did period Brother's wear that might indicate membership in the fraternity? A review of the few period writings that describe one brother recognizing another (other than a verbal, or manual signal), usually spoke of such things as watch fobs, or a small square and compass sewn into the inside lining of a jacket, or on the reverse side of a lapel, or on the cuff of the jacket or shirt sleeve. These sewn, or home embroidered symbols where likely no larger that your thumbnail. I have heard reference to one of two period images of men wearing pinky rings with what appears to be a square and compass. Discretion was likely the rule of order with regards to physical emblems.
      I would make a very educated guess at discretion being the order of the day from what research I have discovered. Remember, the Anti-Masonic party was very powerful just before the 1860s and the first "third party" in American political history. While the "Age of the Fraternity" was in full-swing during the mid-19th Century, fraternities were ultra-secret during this time period for not just social, but political reasons. Obviously, secrets were more easily kept back in the days before the internet and mass communications.

      Bottom line: if you wear Masonic self-identification items in a period context, make them small and mostly hidden or not terribly noticeable unless someone knows what they mean or asks you about them. At events, I wear a copy of a silver, 18th century square and compass pinky ring that is very small. Brother Pat Craddock has these rings for sale.
      Last edited by Johnny Lloyd; 05-10-2011, 11:50 AM.
      Johnny Lloyd
      John "Johnny" Lloyd
      Moderator
      Think before you post... Rules on this forum here
      SCAR
      Known to associate with the following fine groups: WIG/AG/CR

      "Without history, there can be no research standards.
      Without research standards, there can be no authenticity.
      Without the attempt at authenticity, all is just a fantasy.
      Fantasy is not history nor heritage, because it never really existed." -Me


      Proud descendant of...

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Masonic insignia on uniforms

        Thank you very much for your input! I'll look up Brother Craddock.

        Yours respectfully,
        Brian
        Brian Shajari
        Tolerance Lodge 1165 AF&AM, Texas
        Co. L, 1st Texas Volunteer Infantry Regiment Lone Star Rifles
        Hawaii American Civil War Roundtable Group


        Proud descendent of: PVT William B. Wales, Louisiana Crescent Regiment
        and Pvt. James Groves, Jr., Co. K, 6th Louisiana Cavalry

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Masonic insignia on uniforms

          While it is evident that Mason soldiers typically hid their membership by the absence/concealment of Masonic pins, etc during encampment, I wonder if pins, rings, patches and the like were donned visibly prior to engaging in battle. I have to think that Mason soldiers would have done so, simply to announce their membership to any enemy Brethren to avoid becoming a casualty. Just my thoughts as I have nothing to back this up. What are your opinions?
          Sincerely,
          James McMillen
          Pontotoc, MS

          Proud descendant of [URL="http://s1285.beta.photobucket.com/user/3DistinctKnocks/media/jrmcmillen_zpsee976af7.jpg.html?sort=3&o=0"]Sgt. James Richard McMillen[/URL]
          10th Cav. Regt/12th Miss. Partisan Rangers Co. E

          Pontotoc Lodge #81 F.&A.M.
          Grand Lodge of Mississippi

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Masonic insignia on uniforms

            Keep in mind the uniform worn by Civil War soldiers was just that, a military uniform. I don't feel many NCOs and officers would let you get away with a "pledge pin on your uniform!" Not to say non regulation items were not worn, I feel wearing all the non regulation items reenactors wear is a reenactorism. Mina tvĺ ore.
            Robert Johnson

            "Them fellers out thar you ar goin up against, ain't none of the blue-bellied, white-livered Yanks and sassidge-eatin'forrin' hirelin's you have in Virginny that run atthe snap of a cap - they're Western fellers, an' they'll mighty quick give you a bellyful o' fightin."



            In memory of: William Garry Co.H 5th USCC KIA 10/2/64 Saltville VA.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Masonic insignia on uniforms

              [SIZE=3][/SIZE][FONT=Palatino Linotype][SIZE=4][COLOR="#0000CD"]Donald R. Goolsby, S:. W:.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
              [FONT=Palatino Linotype]St. Cloud No. 221
              F.&A.M. of Florida[/FONT]

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Masonic insignia on uniforms

                Nice picture, Brother Donald, thanks for sharing. I would imagine that this brother put the Square and Compasses on his jacket for this photograph. As Robert stated, the clothes that they were wearing were military uniforms, so I doubt that the company SGT's or company commanders would have allowed these for regular wear.

                I have hand stitched a small square and compass into my jacket lining without the letter "G". It's my understanding that using the letter "G" in the middle of the square and compasses is a relatively modern trend. I've seen examples of "G" inter-twined with the square and compasses from the 18th century, but none where it's in the middle.


                I plan on ordering one the signet pinky rings soon to wear at certain events. I'll post a picture of my jacket stitching later this week.

                It would be interesting, though, to find documented evidence if a brother wore insignia on the outside of his uniform in battle so that "one brother may know another".
                Brian Shajari
                Tolerance Lodge 1165 AF&AM, Texas
                Co. L, 1st Texas Volunteer Infantry Regiment Lone Star Rifles
                Hawaii American Civil War Roundtable Group


                Proud descendent of: PVT William B. Wales, Louisiana Crescent Regiment
                and Pvt. James Groves, Jr., Co. K, 6th Louisiana Cavalry

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Masonic insignia on uniforms

                  Originally posted by 3DistinctKnocks View Post
                  I have to think that Mason soldiers would have done so, simply to announce their membership to any enemy Brethren to avoid becoming a casualty. ...What are your opinions?
                  Two items here...
                  1) This is The Authentic-Campaigner, so we must require more than "opinion"... supporting documentation, please.
                  2) Does your question about insinuate that somehow a Mason might not follow orders if they might affect a brother in the service of the enemy? Conversely, would it not be viewed in Victorian society as cowardly for one to display a fraternal (or another) symbol in hopes of avoiding death or injury? As in, "Don't shoot me, I'm a Mason!"
                  John Wickett
                  Former Carpetbagger
                  Administrator (We got rules here! Be Nice - Sign Your Name - No Farbisms)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Masonic insignia on uniforms

                    Frankly, I find it beyond doubtful that putting a large insignia on the outside of the clothing to say "don't shoot me" happened by any soldier. I think that is viewing battle distances in a very mainstream event manner. Even at 200 yards one would not very likely not be able to make out what was on a man’s chest. I have stood across an open field with some trees on each end and men that was about 200-250 yards (Brawner’s Farm). We had a hard time just making out the color of the uniform. If
                    Respectfully,

                    Jeremy Bevard
                    Moderator
                    Civil War Digital Digest
                    Sally Port Mess

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Masonic insignia on uniforms

                      Originally posted by BShajari View Post
                      . I'll post a picture of my jacket stitching later this week.

                      .
                      I was thinking of doing the same thing, i'd love to see your handiwork!
                      Your Humble Servant,
                      Sean R. Otis
                      124th NYSV Co. A "Orange Blossoms"
                      MIDDLESEX LODGE F. & A.M.

                      In Memorium: Harvey Otis, Jr. — 156th NYSV Co. A .
                      Killed in action, September 19, 1864,
                      at Winchester, VA. Aged 26 years.

                      Member of the "Hard Sauce" Mess

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Masonic insignia on uniforms

                        Originally posted by LibertyHallVols View Post
                        Two items here...
                        1) This is The Authentic-Campaigner, so we must require more than "opinion"... supporting documentation, please.
                        2) Does your question about insinuate that somehow a Mason might not follow orders if they might affect a brother in the service of the enemy? Conversely, would it not be viewed in Victorian society as cowardly for one to display a fraternal (or another) symbol in hopes of avoiding death or injury? As in, "Don't shoot me, I'm a Mason!"
                        I'm not insinuating anything. I also happen to think that when one's life is on the line they would most likely look to anything that might save their skin regardless of how cowardly it might seem. There are countless examples in nearly every military conflict where a soldier keeps a small token or "talisman"...it could be a pebble, a bullet that nearly took his life, some small object like a "worry bead". Why not a small square and compass pin or ring? I wasn't thinking of a large "HEY, I'm a MASON" emblem...more like a small pin the likes of which has been posted on this very thread. The fact remains that there were a large number of Masons involved on both sides of the ACW. We have read and heard of many examples on the battlefield of a Brother coming to the aid and assistance of another Brother. If I had been involved, I don't know that I would be able to follow an order NOT to help a wounded Brother, or to assist one in captivity...not release him, but to attempt to make his situation better. I'm sure our Civil War Brethren took their obligations as seriously as we do now. Sorry I don't have any supporting documentation, but trying to find documentation on the related matter is somewhat hard to come by, as has previously been stated.
                        Sincerely,
                        James McMillen
                        Pontotoc, MS

                        Proud descendant of [URL="http://s1285.beta.photobucket.com/user/3DistinctKnocks/media/jrmcmillen_zpsee976af7.jpg.html?sort=3&o=0"]Sgt. James Richard McMillen[/URL]
                        10th Cav. Regt/12th Miss. Partisan Rangers Co. E

                        Pontotoc Lodge #81 F.&A.M.
                        Grand Lodge of Mississippi

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Masonic insignia on uniforms

                          For one thing the reproductions (if I can call them repros!) that most reenactors wear are absolutely horrible.
                          Robert Johnson

                          "Them fellers out thar you ar goin up against, ain't none of the blue-bellied, white-livered Yanks and sassidge-eatin'forrin' hirelin's you have in Virginny that run atthe snap of a cap - they're Western fellers, an' they'll mighty quick give you a bellyful o' fightin."



                          In memory of: William Garry Co.H 5th USCC KIA 10/2/64 Saltville VA.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Masonic insignia on uniforms

                            No offense is intended with my remark. I was simply reading the following...
                            Originally posted by 3DistinctKnocks View Post
                            I wonder if pins, rings, patches and the like were donned visibly prior to engaging in battle. I have to think that Mason soldiers would have done so, simply to announce their membership to any enemy Brethren to avoid becoming a casualty.
                            ...and my interpretation of the words on the screen seemed clear to me (whether your intent or not): The wearing of fraternal symbols to avoid becoming a casualty.
                            John Wickett
                            Former Carpetbagger
                            Administrator (We got rules here! Be Nice - Sign Your Name - No Farbisms)

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Masonic insignia on uniforms

                              Originally posted by LibertyHallVols View Post
                              No offense is intended with my remark. I was simply reading the following...

                              ...and my interpretation of the words on the screen seemed clear to me (whether your intent or not): The wearing of fraternal symbols to avoid becoming a casualty.
                              No offense taken, friend. That's the one gripe I have about conversing with plain text alone. Thoughts, feelings and intent is very much lacking. It just goes to show that much of the time its not what we say, but how we say it.
                              Hmm...maybe Momma was right after all! ;)
                              Sincerely,
                              James McMillen
                              Pontotoc, MS

                              Proud descendant of [URL="http://s1285.beta.photobucket.com/user/3DistinctKnocks/media/jrmcmillen_zpsee976af7.jpg.html?sort=3&o=0"]Sgt. James Richard McMillen[/URL]
                              10th Cav. Regt/12th Miss. Partisan Rangers Co. E

                              Pontotoc Lodge #81 F.&A.M.
                              Grand Lodge of Mississippi

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X