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  • What jacket are they wearing?

    I'm attaching a photo of the 50th Pennsylvania Infantry on parade in Beaufort SC in January of 1862 my question is because the image is so far away does it appear that they are wearing Frock Coats or Sack Coats?
    [CENTER]Yours with a jerk,
    Michael Kirby
    2009
    [COLOR="Green"]Fort Moultrie : STRANGER DANGER!
    Sharpsburg LH: Wrecking the Van (The Tripp Corbin Experience)
    Westville GA Work Weekend: SWAMP MONSTER![/COLOR]
    [COLOR="Blue"]Bummers
    [/COLOR]
    2010
    [COLOR="Blue"]Pt. Lookout Maryland LH
    Rivers Bridge Federal Campaigner Adjunct
    Backwaters 1865
    In The Van: Trailing Kirby Smith
    Before The Breakout
    Struggles of Secession[/COLOR][/CENTER]

  • #2
    Re: What jacket are they wearing?

    My humble assesment is that they are in fatigue blouses. The bagginess in the arms is the first giveaway, followed by the shortness in length. Another interesting part of the image is the number of dark blue trousers versus sky blue (not all uniform here).
    Ross L. Lamoreaux
    rlamoreaux@tampabayhistorycenter.org


    "...and if profanity was included in the course of study at West Point, I am sure that the Army of the Cumberland had their share of the prize scholars in this branch." - B.F. Scribner, 38th Indiana Vol Inf

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    • #3
      Re: What jacket are they wearing?

      Dude,

      You need to visit Dr, Wise at the MCRD Museum.

      He has a plethora of Federal images from Beaufort. He also has a mind worth picking.

      I have a few names in Beaufort you could get in touch with. Good reenactors. PM me and I'll give you an e-mail address or two.
      Galen Wagner
      Mobile, AL

      Duty is, then, the sublimest word in our language.Do your duty in all things. You cannot do more. You should never wish to do less. -Col. Robert E.Lee, Superintendent of USMA West Point, 1852

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: What jacket are they wearing?

        I would say "sacks". What I find interesting in the image is the placement of the line officers AND at least 2 mounted (what I'm assuming) staff.
        Rob Murray

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        • #5
          Re: What jacket are they wearing?

          Its hard for me to tell but do they also have sabre type bayonets?
          [SIZE=0]PetePaolillo
          ...ILUS;)[/SIZE]

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: What jacket are they wearing?

            There's a high-res of that bad boy here:

            http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/...sgproto,ww2map

            They're all wearing sack coats, and their rifles all have angular bayonets. There's a few guys with dark blue trousers but not many, and the majority of rifles have patch boxes. They're in full marching order and a few overcoats can be seen packed on top of the knapsacks; some apparently don't have overcoats.
            Brian White
            [URL="http://wwandcompany.com"]Wambaugh, White, & Co.[/URL]
            [URL="https://www.facebook.com/pages/Wambaugh-White-Company/114587141930517"]https://www.facebook.com/pages/Wambaugh-White-Company/114587141930517[/URL]
            [email]brian@wwandcompany.com[/email]

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            • #7
              Re: What jacket are they wearing?

              Hallo!

              The problem with the image is that the length of time for the exposure saw a number of men fidgeting, moving, or looking at the camera (which distorts some of the M1855 bayonets).
              Some of the guns are late Model 1855 rifle-muskets.

              Here is a test of my feeble PC skills,, let's see if I can post an image. (The jpg version falls apart too much at 200%):



              The 12th man from the viewers left appears to have his blouse tucked in his trousers. And the 7th lad appears to have his cap box front and center.

              Curt
              Last edited by Curt Schmidt; 04-29-2009, 11:26 AM.
              Curt Schmidt
              In gleichem Schritt und Tritt, Curt Schmidt

              -Hard and sharp as flint...secret, and self-contained, and solitary as an oyster.
              -Haplogroup R1b M343 (Subclade R1b1a2 M269)
              -Pointless Folksy Wisdom Mess, Oblio Lodge #1
              -Vastly Ignorant
              -Often incorrect, technically, historically, factually.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: What jacket are they wearing?

                No knapsacks on the musicians...they're not even wearing belts. They're probably getting ready to march down the line and play the Troop.
                Will Chappell

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: What jacket are they wearing?

                  Originally posted by Curt-Heinrich Schmidt View Post
                  Hallo!

                  The problem with the image is that the length of time for the exposure saw a number of men fidgeting, moving, or looking at the camera (which distorts some of the M1855 bayonets).
                  Some of the guns are late Model 1855 rifle-muskets.

                  Here is a test of my feeble PC skills,, let's see if I can post an image. (The jpg version falls apart too much at 200%):



                  The 12th man from the viewers left appears to have his blouse tucked in his trousers. And the 7th lad appears to have his cap box front and center.

                  Curt
                  AHHH there ya go!! Pictures answer so many questions when you are able to see everything somewhat better, It looked like some of them are possibly carrying some 1841 Remington alteration muskets that was why I was thinking sabre bayonets. But I guess they are the 1855's....The hammer on the musket second soldier from left looked like it could be the 1841...Curt what do you think.
                  Last edited by PetePaolillo; 04-29-2009, 12:34 PM.
                  [SIZE=0]PetePaolillo
                  ...ILUS;)[/SIZE]

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: What jacket are they wearing?

                    Originally posted by Curt-Heinrich Schmidt View Post
                    Hallo!

                    The problem with the image is that the length of time for the exposure saw a number of men fidgeting, moving, or looking at the camera (which distorts some of the M1855 bayonets).
                    Some of the guns are late Model 1855 rifle-muskets.

                    Here is a test of my feeble PC skills,, let's see if I can post an image. (The jpg version falls apart too much at 200%):



                    The 12th man from the viewers left appears to have his blouse tucked in his trousers. And the 7th lad appears to have his cap box front and center.

                    Curt


                    AWESOME! I can not thank you enough for enlarging that photo for me, my computer doesnt have the program to get it like that and I thank you.
                    [CENTER]Yours with a jerk,
                    Michael Kirby
                    2009
                    [COLOR="Green"]Fort Moultrie : STRANGER DANGER!
                    Sharpsburg LH: Wrecking the Van (The Tripp Corbin Experience)
                    Westville GA Work Weekend: SWAMP MONSTER![/COLOR]
                    [COLOR="Blue"]Bummers
                    [/COLOR]
                    2010
                    [COLOR="Blue"]Pt. Lookout Maryland LH
                    Rivers Bridge Federal Campaigner Adjunct
                    Backwaters 1865
                    In The Van: Trailing Kirby Smith
                    Before The Breakout
                    Struggles of Secession[/COLOR][/CENTER]

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: What jacket are they wearing?

                      Hallo!

                      Light reflection and refraction, coupled with movement plays h*ll with trying to see detail.

                      Easier one.. I "see" no M1841's. They all appear to rifle-musket or musket length, plus the "patchbox" on an M1841 is longer than that on an M1855.

                      Harder one...

                      I think I "see" several (without counting) M1822 alteration or M1842's based upon the flat buttplate, comb style, and the double loop nosecap/front band (one seen in the first muzzle visible on the viewer's left, and on the 7th man).

                      At first I thought that the mix of rifle-muskets and muskets might be explained by the 50th PVI perhaps still being one of those musket armed with the two flank (skirmish) companies being RM armed- but the apparent mixing is off.

                      Others' mileage will vary...

                      Curt
                      Curt Schmidt
                      In gleichem Schritt und Tritt, Curt Schmidt

                      -Hard and sharp as flint...secret, and self-contained, and solitary as an oyster.
                      -Haplogroup R1b M343 (Subclade R1b1a2 M269)
                      -Pointless Folksy Wisdom Mess, Oblio Lodge #1
                      -Vastly Ignorant
                      -Often incorrect, technically, historically, factually.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: What jacket are they wearing?

                        Another thing that is note worthy, note the lack of breast plates on the cartridge box straps. And the lack of a cartridge box strap at all on the first man.
                        [CENTER]Yours with a jerk,
                        Michael Kirby
                        2009
                        [COLOR="Green"]Fort Moultrie : STRANGER DANGER!
                        Sharpsburg LH: Wrecking the Van (The Tripp Corbin Experience)
                        Westville GA Work Weekend: SWAMP MONSTER![/COLOR]
                        [COLOR="Blue"]Bummers
                        [/COLOR]
                        2010
                        [COLOR="Blue"]Pt. Lookout Maryland LH
                        Rivers Bridge Federal Campaigner Adjunct
                        Backwaters 1865
                        In The Van: Trailing Kirby Smith
                        Before The Breakout
                        Struggles of Secession[/COLOR][/CENTER]

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: What jacket are they wearing?

                          Originally posted by Curt-Heinrich Schmidt View Post
                          Hallo!

                          Light reflection and refraction, coupled with movement plays h*ll with trying to see detail.

                          Easier one.. I "see" no M1841's. They all appear to rifle-musket or musket length, plus the "patchbox" on an M1841 is longer than that on an M1855.

                          Harder one...

                          I think I "see" several (without counting) M1822 alteration or M1842's based upon the flat buttplate, comb style, and the double loop nosecap/front band (one seen in the first muzzle visible on the viewer's left, and on the 7th man).

                          At first I thought that the mix of rifle-muskets and muskets might be explained by the 50th PVI perhaps still being one of those musket armed with the two flank (skirmish) companies being RM armed- but the apparent mixing is off.

                          Others' mileage will vary...

                          Curt
                          Curt, Right on! Thanks..It is a great photo...lots of stuff to chew on.
                          [SIZE=0]PetePaolillo
                          ...ILUS;)[/SIZE]

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: What jacket are they wearing?

                            Hallo!

                            I should go back and post this on the other thread, but...

                            Their captain is sabre armed.

                            :)



                            Curt
                            Curt Schmidt
                            In gleichem Schritt und Tritt, Curt Schmidt

                            -Hard and sharp as flint...secret, and self-contained, and solitary as an oyster.
                            -Haplogroup R1b M343 (Subclade R1b1a2 M269)
                            -Pointless Folksy Wisdom Mess, Oblio Lodge #1
                            -Vastly Ignorant
                            -Often incorrect, technically, historically, factually.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: What jacket are they wearing?

                              You may notice also that their trouser are all not rolled up on parade. You can tell they were as they are way to long and very wrinkled. Great pic, early war indeed. I always wonder how guys screw up a Union impression with pics like this.
                              Thomas J. Alleman
                              "If the choice be mine, I chose to march." LOR

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