ambrotype help

[rebelfirefighter07]

Yesterday I went to an indoor yard sale in Dalton, Ga and found this ambrotype. The lady said she had no idea what kind of picture it was or who it was. She said it was in a box that her friend got at an estate sale. The scan by no means does this picture justice. It has much much clearer details in person. The baby has a freaked out look on its face, I imagine scared by the camera. The lady has a ring on two fingers on the hand around the baby. It looks almost like a drop of gold on the rings as well as in the center of the ribbon around her neck. I believe her belt has a two piece buckle and the sleves of her dress appear to have small tassle like things at her hand. Her hair is also parted in the middle. I at first thought that she may be wearing a mourning dress but I honestly don't know much about lady's wear. The case shows age but is in decent shape compared to some I've seen online. Anything yall could tell me to help me age would be geatly aprreciated. Any and all information is appreciated. Thanks!

[ElizabethClark]

Re: ambrotype help

Is there any way to get a more clear image of it?

What I can from the blurred version would date somewhere in the 1850s, or possibly into the 1860s. Though her dress photographs dark, that's absolutely zero indication of mourning--photographic technology of the era produces a far different "read" on colors than modern black and white. For instance, bright yellow, strong orange, and scarlet red all photograph black with period technology. (There's a great color study article on the Mescher's website, in the archives of Virginia's Veranda, here: www.vintagevolumes.com )

Without a clearer image, it's really hard to say anything more about her clothing and hair, which could help date her within about a 5 year span.

[rebelfirefighter07]

Re: ambrotype help

I'll try and get a clearer picture and repost it when I get a chance.

[Joe Walker]

Re: ambrotype help

Looks like a sixth plate. Carefully attempt to take out the preserver, mat, and see if anyting is behind. An Xacto knife works well for this. You can tell if ambo or tintype by holding to the light for a "ghost" image. If cloth on the back, it's for sure ambro.

Joe Walker

[rebelfirefighter07]

Re: ambrotype help

Heres another try at a clearer picture. The right side is darker from the shadow of the camera but this was the clearest i could get it. Like I said before the pictures on here dont do it justice.

I have wanted to try and take it apart to see if theres a name or date on the back but I've been afraid to. I didnt know if it was sealed and would mess up if exposed or if I could get it back together. I don't know the names of the parts or what goes where so anything yall can tell me would be a great help.

[ElizabethClark]

Re: ambrotype help

That's a lot better, thanks!

I don't see dress sleeves at all--I see a shawl draped around her shoulders and over her forearms, and you can see the fringe of the shawl edge near her wrist.

Her dress has a round neckline, with what appears to be a little white frill collar, and a ribbon "tie" pinned around her neck, rather higher than most worn at the time. It's a more 1840s ribbon position, but the bodice is not so tightly fitted as most 1840s bodices. I'd like to date this feature for the early-ish 50s (which would also be consistent with her low hair)... were we later in the 50s, I'd expect to see a different collar alltogether, and the 60s collars are even more different.

Her bodice is comfortably fitted through the chest and into the waist; she does appear to have a belt with buckle. From the slight sheen of the fabric, I'd hazard that it is a silk; cotton and wool rarely photograph with the same sheen (not shine), and there's a "body" to the folding in the upper chest area that just reads as a lined silk to me.

The arm area looks to have a similar sheen; if the area I'm reading as a shawl is indeed a wrap, it may be a silk one, rather than a lightweight wool.

At the wrist supporting the baby (where she does have two tinted rings on her hand), it sure seems to have a strip of flesh beyond that dark band. Bracelets are often worn in pairs mid-century; I can't make out clearly, but is there a corresponding dark banded sort of thing on her other arm?

One note on her hair: I have the same jogged-over section in my center part! :) It's the result of a natural cowlick right at the peak. It's just a joy to live with. She looks far more serene than I manage after wrangling my cowlick, most days.

What I can see of baby's dress is very consistent with styles for the 1840s,1850s and into the 1860s: a fairly close bodice with loose, full sleeves, and a full, long skirt. The plate appears to have been tinted blue in the child's clothing? If so, this does not indicate boyishness--the tradition of pink/girls, blue/boys is actually a quite recent thing, dating to the mid-20th century. I've not found information specifying particular colors for particular sexes mid-century, nor any prohibition on dressing boys in pink, or girls in blue.

So, barring other information, I'd want to date it sometime in the mid-to-early 1850s; if actually created later, there are a few things that become atypical in the 1860s... still seen in the period, but a bit "eccentric" for a war-years wardrobe.

[rebelfirefighter07]

Re: ambrotype help

Thank you very very much you've helped alot.

[Bruce Schultz]

Re: ambrotype help

Frederick Scott Archer invented wet-plate collodion technology in 1852 in England, and its first application was with glass to make ambrotypes, and negatives.
Ambrotypes are just underexposed negatives with a black backing required to appear as a positive. Tintypes came about around 1856 but they didn't completely replace ambros and were done during the war. Because tintypes were easier to send through the mail, and didn't require a black backing to appear as a positive, they eventually displaced ambrotypes.
Use any kind of thin blade, box cutter or razor blade to pry the image out of the case. Insert the blade between the red velvet strip and the stamped brass. If it's an ambrotype, the image is on glass. It may be clear glass or even orange or red glass. If it's clear glass, it will either be japanned on the backside or have a black cloth or black metal to make a positive image.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: ambrotype help

Hallo!

Try a quick check by turning and twisting the image in your hand in the light to see if it "shifts" to a silvery or ghost-like "negative"?

(The posted image appears to my eye as rather "flat" and non "glass" like.)

Curt

[rebelfirefighter07]

Re: ambrotype help

I've twisted it ever which way and it doesnt look silvery or ghost like. If I take it apart how hard will it be to get it back together? Also if its one of the others instead of an ambrotype will it make a difference when taking it apart?

[Mgreer]

Re: ambrotype help

Color wise she is most likly wearing a red dress with a black collar and is not in mourning

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: ambrotype help

Hallo!

It should/would to be hard to reassemble.

If a ferrotype (tin type) there is just the image held in place by friction with the frame and the "gold" foil border. Some originals are loose and will fall out on their own, or when tapped gently from behind.

As shared above, the ambrotype is a bit different being a glass image, but the "construction" is the same with the addition of a backer.

I use the point of an X-Acto blade to GENTLY lift up the foil and image for removal.

Of course, one does not want to gouge, cut, or damage the case, bend the stamped foil, drop the ambrotype glass on the floor, or handle the image...

(On the other hand, and negative side, there are fraudulent sellers that have empty Period cases, and simply cut out modern photographs of period images and insert them into the case to try to get a higher price.)

Curt

[ElizabethClark]

Re: ambrotype help

Mr Greer, I'd respectfully disagree with your color and collar commentary. :)

It is just *not possible* to say with any absolute certainty what colors she's wearing. The best we can do is that the color photographs dark. While that may indeed be red, it could also be yellow, or orange, or black... we can say it's not white, and probably not a color with a lot of blue tones to it, but beyond that, there's just no way to be certain. Even if it were black, that alone does not indicate mourning; in fact, the slight sheen of the fabric would indicate a fashion silk, like taffeta, rather than a dull silk for mourning. If she is in black, it's more likely just a better daywear dress.

From a dressmaking stance, she's not got the typical 60s collar (one reason I date her a good decade earlier). You can see the neckline of her dress, and a bit of a pale gap, and then there's a wide ribbon tie around her neck, fastened at front with a pin that's been tinted gold, and so is probably a gold-toned pin in real life.

A ribbon tie is very different from a collar. They both accent the neck, but serve vastly different purposes.

[rebelfirefighter07]

Re: ambrotype help

Got brave and took it out. It came out pretty easy. The picture is on what I'm guessing is a piece of tin with glass over it. It slid away from the glass for a split second and I put it right back. I made sure i didnt touch the image. There wasn't any writing or anything on the back. I was really hoping for a name or a date. I've very thankful that yall have been able to help me with an approximate time frame though. Is there anything special I need to know to take care of it. I'd hate to ruin something 150 + yrs old.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: ambrotype help

Hallo!

Keep it out of bright light and particularly sunlight.
And store in a "cool, dry area."

Curt