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Two 4th Texas images

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  • #1

    Two 4th Texas images

    Fellas,
    Pulled these from the Lawrence Jones collection that another fellow posted. Check out there 2 images!

    Link to website with other pics:
    403 Forbidden
    http://digitalcollections.smu.edu/cdm4/results.php?CISOOP1=any&CISOBOX1=Confederates&CISOFIELD1=CISOSEARCHALL&CISOROOT=%2Fjtx




    I love this image. My initial take was that some of their kit is photographers props. love the black tape all the way around the jacket. the man on our left has no buttons it appears. I wonder where these were taken?



    Same reg't. notice the black tape as well. no big hat though.

    thoughts on these??
    Bryant Roberts
    Palmetto Guards/WIG/LR

    Interested in the Palmetto Guards?
    palmettoguards@gmail.com
    Tags: None
  • #2
    Re: Two 4th Texas images

    Bryan, Great photos. The second says he's Co. B, "Tom Green Rifles" The account Rags and Hope by Val Giles is from the same company. His photo is the same pattern frock, but with a very large hat.
    Eric Stephenson

    [URL="http://www.military-historians.org/"]The Company of Military Historians[/URL]
    [URL="http://lodge245.doylestownmasons.org/"]Doylestown Masonic Lodge No. 245 Free and Accepted Masons[/URL]

    "Captain Dike is in the hands of some brother Masons, and to the Order he owes his life." OR s.I v.II

    Comment

    • #3
      Re: Two 4th Texas images

      The first thing I thought before I saw that post was that they both looked a lot like Val Giles. Very interesting to see the similarities, yet subtle differances between men of the same company.

      The date of the first pic is circa 1862. Does anyone remember the date of the Giles picture? I want to say it was taken in Texas in 1861, but can't remember
      Andrew Donovan
      Michigan

      I think many of us get nostalgic about the past and like to think somehow that the world our mid-19th century ancestors lived in was free from many of the "sins" of our present world. Truth is, the more you study the past the more you realize that there's really nothing new under the sun. They struggled with many (most) of the same problems we do today.
      -Ian McWherter

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      • #4
        Re: Two 4th Texas images

        I found an article online, "Hood's Texas Brigade," by Harold B. Simpson, which uses the first image and has a more detailed caption:

        "Half-plate tintype of Privates Emzy Taylor and G.M. Taylor, Company E, "Lone Star Guards," 4th Texas Infantry, ca. 1861. Emzy Taylor was discharged for disability because of a 'lung disease' in 1861. His brother, G.M. Taylor, was wounded in the Battle of Gaines' Mill in 1862 and served with the 4th Texas Infantry until being paroled at Appomattox Court House on April 12, 1865."

        Emzy is on the left, by the way.
        Last edited by Dusty Merritt; 10-29-2009, 09:20 AM. Reason: forgot to clarify who is who
        Brendan Hamilton
        Jerusalem Plank Road

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        • #5
          Re: Two 4th Texas images

          The Giles photo is in Texas. His father took him to get a photo taken and had bought him the finest hat in the store before the photo.
          Eric Stephenson

          [URL="http://www.military-historians.org/"]The Company of Military Historians[/URL]
          [URL="http://lodge245.doylestownmasons.org/"]Doylestown Masonic Lodge No. 245 Free and Accepted Masons[/URL]

          "Captain Dike is in the hands of some brother Masons, and to the Order he owes his life." OR s.I v.II

          Comment

          • #6
            Re: Two 4th Texas images

            eric,
            those jackets remind me a certain commutation jacket that a fellow I know once made up....
            Bryant Roberts
            Palmetto Guards/WIG/LR

            Interested in the Palmetto Guards?
            palmettoguards@gmail.com

            Comment

            • #7
              Re: Two 4th Texas images

              The Co. B is a frock, judging by others in the same company. I would also question the 62 date on that image. The frocks were very worn by the time they got east.

              Also a note on Harold Simpson. He is the author of several books dedicated to the Texas Brigade. He was also a Fellow of the Company of Military Historians.
              Eric Stephenson

              [URL="http://www.military-historians.org/"]The Company of Military Historians[/URL]
              [URL="http://lodge245.doylestownmasons.org/"]Doylestown Masonic Lodge No. 245 Free and Accepted Masons[/URL]

              "Captain Dike is in the hands of some brother Masons, and to the Order he owes his life." OR s.I v.II

              Comment

              • #8
                Re: Two 4th Texas images

                I do not believe those are frock coats that they are wearing. The cut and length of the coats are all wrong. They are closer to sack coats or the Confederate 4-button jacket than frocks. Maybe I am completely wrong, but that is how it appears to me. There is another photo of men from this regiment wearing the same type of coat\jacket in on page 268 of Eyewitness to the Civil War. Thanks


                Andrew
                Andrew Kasmar

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                • #9
                  Re: Two 4th Texas images

                  The first photo is shell jackets or sack coats. I am referring to the second image. It is a sumac dyed frock coat with black trim. They were issued in the spring of 1861 to Co. B and made in Austin Texas. I will try to find the quote that corresponds to the photo.
                  Eric Stephenson

                  [URL="http://www.military-historians.org/"]The Company of Military Historians[/URL]
                  [URL="http://lodge245.doylestownmasons.org/"]Doylestown Masonic Lodge No. 245 Free and Accepted Masons[/URL]

                  "Captain Dike is in the hands of some brother Masons, and to the Order he owes his life." OR s.I v.II

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    Re: Two 4th Texas images

                    Eric,
                    Could you post th eother photo (if you have it) that we discussed earlier today?
                    Bryant Roberts
                    Palmetto Guards/WIG/LR

                    Interested in the Palmetto Guards?
                    palmettoguards@gmail.com

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      Re: Two 4th Texas images

                      full length photo of the Taylor boys:

                      Bryant Roberts
                      Palmetto Guards/WIG/LR

                      Interested in the Palmetto Guards?
                      palmettoguards@gmail.com

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        Re: Two 4th Texas images

                        Perhaps they aren't sack coats or long jackets, but rather tunics?
                        Brian White
                        [URL="http://wwandcompany.com"]Wambaugh, White, & Co.[/URL]
                        [URL="https://www.facebook.com/pages/Wambaugh-White-Company/114587141930517"]https://www.facebook.com/pages/Wambaugh-White-Company/114587141930517[/URL]
                        [email]brian@wwandcompany.com[/email]

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                        • #13
                          Re: Two 4th Texas images

                          I found a copy in an expired ebay post. It claims to have another photo of Giles, but I am not sure if it is true. The frock trim is identical to the Co. B photo.

                          Error Page | eBay
                          http://cgi.ebay.com.sg/Civil-War-Photograph-Tin-Type-Val-C-Giles-w-Book-Rare_W0QQitemZ250494675309QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3a52a5696d&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14#ht_3253wt_1151


                          I have found the quote from Rags and Hope.

                          "I will try to give a picture of myself as I looked at nineteen because it so truly represents the appeatance of many a young fellow from the rural districts who joined the Confederate army in the spring of 1861. When my regiment was arganized that spring, there were no two companies who had uniforms alike. It was some time after the war began that the Confederacy adopted any particular style of uniform. The color was universally grey, but the cut of the cloth varied materially.

                          We were a motley-looking set, but as a rule, comfortably dressed. In my company we had about four different shades of gray, but the trimmings were all of black braid. As far as pride went, we were all generals. The citizens of Austin and surrounding neighborhood bought the cloth. An old tailor took our measurements and cit the uniforms. Then the ladies made them up. Oh, we were fine!"
                          Eric Stephenson

                          [URL="http://www.military-historians.org/"]The Company of Military Historians[/URL]
                          [URL="http://lodge245.doylestownmasons.org/"]Doylestown Masonic Lodge No. 245 Free and Accepted Masons[/URL]

                          "Captain Dike is in the hands of some brother Masons, and to the Order he owes his life." OR s.I v.II

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            Re: Two 4th Texas images

                            I had forgotten just how ridiculous Giles' hat was.

                            I believe there was another photo of the 1st Texas in winter camp around a cabin near Richmond wearing very similar frock coats and most (if not all) wearing kepis. I'm not talking about the more well-known "Beuregard Mess" photo, but it's a very similar setting. Does anyone know of this photo? I'll see if I can scrounge it up
                            Andrew Donovan
                            Michigan

                            I think many of us get nostalgic about the past and like to think somehow that the world our mid-19th century ancestors lived in was free from many of the "sins" of our present world. Truth is, the more you study the past the more you realize that there's really nothing new under the sun. They struggled with many (most) of the same problems we do today.
                            -Ian McWherter

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              Re: Two 4th Texas images

                              The guy on the right in the first image looks like you, Kasmar! Just sayin..
                              Jon Harris


                              Mang Rifles & Friends
                              Ora pro nobis!

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