Officers NCO's - Co D 93rd NYI

[lhsnj]

Photo information: Co D 93rd NYI, at Bealeton, VA August 1863.
Found on: http://www.civilwarphotos.net/files/infantry.htm

I am trying to learn more about what to look for in photos. While perusing group photos on the http://www.civilwarphotos.net/files/infantry.htm

I found this image and I noticed that 2 of the Sgts in the image had chevrons which apprear darker than the others. Could this be a case of newer promotions vs the older sgts and so the chevrons have had a chance to fade in the elements?

Also it looks like the Sgts are wearing frocks vs the Cpls wearing Sack coats..

When I zoomed in, the sgt sitting on the left looks to have a cross pinned to his coat. And when I looked by his neck, there appears to be something pinned on his collar too, but I can't make out what it is.

Just curious what others might see as something neat. I am trying to see what others see.

Thanks

[Rob]

Re: Officers NCO's - Co D 93rd NYI

A large version of this photograph is available at the LoC. The reproduction number is LC-DIG-cwpb-04033.

The sergeant in question is wearing a cross on his left breast. On his collar are the letters "NY SV".

[roundshot]

Re: Officers NCO's - Co D 93rd NYI

This whole series on the 93rd is remarkable and worthy of a study unto itself on uniforms and equipage in the AOP. You'll see hats, caps, ornamentation, various styles of coats, jackets and belt plates. Here's a close up of Company "I" with a plethora of "SNYs" and ""NY" NCO plates. Other companies mostly wear the "US" plate. These photos are just superb!

[lhsnj]

Re: Officers NCO's - Co D 93rd NYI

A large version of this photograph is available at the LoC. The reproduction number is LC-DIG-cwpb-04033.

The sergeant in question is wearing a cross on his left breast. On his collar are the letters "NY SV".

Rob

Thanks for the lead on the larger version of the photo. Also for clearing up what was on his collar.

[markj]

Re: Officers NCO's - Co D 93rd NYI

Yes, this is a very nice series. In fact, I posted numerous extracts from it on the AC forums as MS Word documents nearly three years ago:

http://www.theauthenticcampaigner.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3895&highlight=93rd+New+York

http://www.theauthenticcampaigner.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4307&highlight=93rd+New+York

http://www.theauthenticcampaigner.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4088&highlight=93rd+New+York

What's particularly interesting is that a number of the men shown in these images can be specifically identified. For example, as memory serves, the "stringbean" lieutenant seen in a sack coat, without rank, was, I'm sorry to say, subsequently KIA in the Wilderness. All of these images appear to have been made at about the same time (perhaps even on the same day) in August 1863 when the 93rd NYVI was then assigned to provost guard duty.

Further information about the 93rd NYVI can be found here: http://www.dmna.state.ny.us/historic...3rdInfMain.htm

Enjoy,

Mark Jaeger

[DJCasey]

Re: Officers NCO's - Co D 93rd NYI

On Bob's close-up of co. I, you see no cartridge box slings. Are they wearing them on their belts and they are swung to the rear, or, are they not wearing them at all? Can you tell in the full image from any other men?

[roundshot]

Re: Officers NCO's - Co D 93rd NYI

No cartridge boxes are being worn.

[lhsnj]

Re: Officers NCO's - Co D 93rd NYI

Yes, this is a very nice series. In fact, I posted numerous extracts from it on the AC forums as MS Word documents nearly three years ago:

http://www.theauthenticcampaigner.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3895&highlight=93rd+New+York

http://www.theauthenticcampaigner.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4307&highlight=93rd+New+York

http://www.theauthenticcampaigner.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4088&highlight=93rd+New+York

What's particularly interesting is that a number of the men shown in these images can be specifically identified. For example, as memory serves, the "stringbean" lieutenant seen in a sack coat, without rank, was, I'm sorry to say, subsequently KIA in the Wilderness. All of these images appear to have been made at about the same time (perhaps even on the same day) in August 1863 when the 93rd NYVI was then assigned to provost guard duty.

Further information about the 93rd NYVI can be found here: http://www.dmna.state.ny.us/historic...3rdInfMain.htm

Enjoy,

Mark Jaeger

Thanks for the background link on them. I didn't realize that they were from the Albany area. Especially the one company that was from Troy. I wonder if any of the boys in that company were RPI (my alma mater) graduates or students.

Mark, in your word document that you had in the above links, in the first picture, the first sgt's chevrons look to have the stripe and lozenge sewn on individually rather than on a "patch" and then on the jacket.

And in the second photo in your word document, the soldier in the back row, 4th from the left. Looks like he has a box or book in his pocket. Wonder if that is a Bible or maybe a deck of cards?

[markj]

Re: Officers NCO's - Co D 93rd NYI

Thanks for the background link on them. I didn't realize that they were from the Albany area. Especially the one company that was from Troy. I wonder if any of the boys in that company were RPI (my alma mater) graduates or students.

Mark, in your word document that you had in the above links, in the first picture, the first sgt's chevrons look to have the stripe and lozenge sewn on individually rather than on a "patch" and then on the jacket.

And in the second photo in your word document, the soldier in the back row, 4th from the left. Looks like he has a box or book in his pocket. Wonder if that is a Bible or maybe a deck of cards?

Hi Greg,

Yes, the First Sergeant's chevrons appear to be sewn as you indicated, which gives them a "three dimensional" quality. In fact, while I was at the Indiana Civil War Museum a few years back, I noted the same kind of chevrons sewn to the sleeves of an enlisted dress coat ID'd to a First Sergeant of the 122nd Ohio. I should think then that this method of sewing chevrons was relatively common and might have been a hallmark of private purchase items (the aforementioned coat definitely had a tailored appearance).

As for what's in the man's pocket, it's anybody's guess although I suspect it's most likely some kind of book.

Regards,

Mark Jaeger

[ThehosGendar]

Re: Officers NCO's - Co D 93rd NYI

Rob,

Glad to see you're getting a kick out of the LOC. It's a wonderful resource, and the 93rd N.Y. series is one of the best examples of a company-by-company survey of what a unit in the Army of the Potomac looked like during the late summer of 1863. I particularly dig the brass on the collars and on the breast, which is something that also pops up in the Engineer images taken at Petersburg.

However, the men of the 93rd in images where they are wearing their accoutrements are indeed wearing cartridge boxes. Though it is difficult to tell from the snippet from Company F (LC-DIG-cwpb-03844), the one fellow standing in the middle appears to have something with considerable weight bearing down on the right side, or cartridge box side, of his belt. In another image (LC-DIG-cwpb-00819, "Officer's mess. Company F, 93d New York Volunteers Headquarters, Army of the Potomac.") you can see that just over the shoulder of the black servant there are waistbelts hanging from the branches, and cartridge boxes attached to them. Company E is one of the companies where the men are wearing their belts in their company image, so we can reasonably assume that if Company E has boxes on their belts, Company F does as well.

Good stuff!

[roundshot]

Re: Officers NCO's - Co D 93rd NYI

By gosh you are right. I stand corrected! Very interesting.

[Mr. Vittles]

Re: Officers NCO's - Co D 93rd NYI

I have an original image in my collection that shows Capt. E. Hobart's Company B 93 N.Y. Vol's taken near Bealton Station, VA. August 1863. This image is from the series entitled "INCIDENTS OF THE WAR" by T. O' Sullivan/Gardner. In fact, most of the images I've seen ID'd to the 93rd appear to have been taken in the same location and probably on the same date. I also have a letter from a Stewart C. Allen who was a member of Co. B of the 93rd.Here is what I was able to find on Stewart's service:

Enlisted on 2/14/1862 at Hudson as a Private
On that same date he was mustered into "B" Co. NY 93rd Infantry
Re-enlisted on 2/16/1864
Wounded 5/10/1864 Spotsylvania Court House, VA
11/6/1864 he was transfered from company B to company A

There's a good chance that Stewart is somewhere in the photo of company B being the photo was taken in 1863 and he wasn't wounded until 1864 during the Battle of Spotsylvania. Unfortunately, I've never been able to find a picture of Stewart to help ID him in the company photo.

Here is a transcription of Stewart's letter to his mother (complete and unedited):

Thursday May 7th, 1862
Camp Victory near
Richmond Via

Dear Mother
I am well and I hope you are the same. I am very much wor-
ried at your not writting to me and
I hope you will not neglect to fulfill
your duty here after for my sake. I don't
know what to make of it your not
writting to me and even when I
send you stamps to write to me
now I hope you will not forget
to write home here after don't forget
we had a very heavy battle here where
I am last Monday May 5th but we
gained the Victory with about two
thousand of our men killed too 1,000
2,000 and A great many more Reb
Rebels killed but we took 5 Forts
from them and we are encamped
between them, we took about 400
Prisoners after the Battle they
are an ugly looking set they dress
in they Citizens dress and we
took about 500 head of Cattle
from them. I am not far from
Richmond and I am about 1 mile
from Williamsburg Via you
have no doubt heard of this Battle
be fore you get this letter after the
battle I was talking with some
of the Prisoners and one in Partic-
ular that came from Richmond
and was in the first Virginia Regt.
I was inquiring around amongst
them a purpose to see if any of
them knew Robert and this one said
that he did I asked him what his business and he told me then I
asked him if he knew where he was
now [Robert] and he said he was a quarter
master in the same Regiment
he was in, and the Robert was in
the same Battle field that I was
in so the Prisoners told me but we
drove them all away and now we
occupy the same place that they did
P.S. don't forget to answer this soon
as you get it from your dear Son

Stewart C. Allen, Company B. 93 Reg N.Y.S.V.
Washington DC Caseys Division
3 Brigade. P.S. I came out of the Battle
field just as I went in, and I hope I will come home
in the same way
The bold type and [Robert] notation are mine. Unlike what he says to his mother about surely hearing of this heavy battle before she receives the letter, I've been hard pressed to figure out what major battle he was talking about. It also makes me wonder who Robert was. A relative? Father? Brother? I guess we will never know for certain.
-Chuck
PS This is a previously unpublished photo (at least I think it is) so please do not publish it without my consent. Thank you very much.

[roundshot]

Re: Officers NCO's - Co D 93rd NYI

http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/I?ils:10:./temp/~pp_p0Qe::displayType=1:m856sd=cwpb:m856sf=03843:@@@

The picture of Company B is on the LOC site as well. Thanks for sharing the letters.

[Mr. Vittles]

Re: Officers NCO's - Co D 93rd NYI

http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/...56sf=03843:@@@

The picture of Company B is on the LOC site as well. Thanks for sharing the letters.

You're welcom Bob. And thank you for the link. If someone knows where I can find an image of Stewart C. Allen, please let me know. I've checked the U.S. Army Heritage Center at the Carlisle Barracks but to no avail.