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The Behavior of Soldiers Wounded in Battle by Kevin O'Beirne, Columbia Rifles

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  • noonanda
    replied
    Re: The Behavior of Soldiers Wounded in Battle by Kevin O'Beirne, Columbia Rifles

    When I was hit by the blast, It felt to me like someone had thrown a Handful of sand into the side of my face (we refer to it as peppering). I also took frag in my right arm which broke the ulna. But I didnt even realize this till I was calling in the report. I had a Garmin GPS on my right wrist and after I called in the grid I noticed a piece of frag sticking out of my arm. thats when I also noticed that I was bleeding from my face. I got medevaced due to the Arm wound to Germany for surgery, but thankfully can still count to 10 LOL

    Leave a comment:


  • noonanda
    replied
    Re: The Behavior of Soldiers Wounded in Battle by Kevin O'Beirne, Columbia Rifles

    Originally posted by 7thNJcoA View Post
    Being wounded myself and seeing others wounded servery there is not much screaming and kicking. The only yelling was for the Corpsman or Medic. Your adrenaline is in full swing and you do not feel the full brunt of the injury until after the fighting dies down. I really do not see a need to do more than lay on the ground when taking a hit. If there are people tending to you, you should then move a little if they ask. The best thing is when litter bearers are running up and down the field picking up bodys IMHO that is as close to real life as we need to get.

    Semper Fi to the other Jarheads who posted on this topic.
    Semper Fi brother, and Agree with you 100%. When I got wounded (IED Detonation) I didnt even realize it till as I was calling in the IED report and started bleeding into my handset. I think the act of just dropping to the ground and laying down would get the point across. If someone wants to go all hollywood or see what it is really like, they can just go to a Recruiters office.

    Leave a comment:


  • Elliott'sSprout
    replied
    Re: The Behavior of Soldiers Wounded in Battle by Kevin O'Beirne, Columbia Rifles

    Originally posted by Pvt. Sweetey View Post
    Sorry, but to me that sounds stupid. If your reenacting 1: You shouldn't have "dead" guys sitting quietly on the ground, they should act DEAD (lay on ground still and quiet). 2: If your going to reenact why the he** would you
    just stare at each other?!?!? The public comes to see battles, excitement, smoke- not people staring at each other for 2 days. That just messes up the whole spirit of reenacting. When we reenact, we aren't scared of having a skirmish here and there. I feel the boys of '61 would want the public to know the truth- PEOPLE DIED
    I agree completely

    Leave a comment:


  • Elliott'sSprout
    replied
    Re: The Behavior of Soldiers Wounded in Battle by Kevin O'Beirne, Columbia Rifles

    This was a very interesting article. Thank You for posting it.

    Leave a comment:


  • cmadler
    replied
    Re: The Behavior of Soldiers Wounded in Battle by Kevin O'Beirne, Columbia Rifles

    I can certainly appreciate that those who have seen real combat have no desire to portray or see portayed the full brutality. However, most audience members have not had this experience. If we are going to give an accurate portrayal there must be some representation of injury and death, although Hollywood-style special effects are probably unneeded. I've seen something similar to the above-mentioned "Just Sit Down II", and it was very effective.

    One other thought this raises is that perhaps it was not too uncommon for a relatively uninjured soldier to leave a battle with bullet holes in clothes, blankets, etc.; this is probably something to keep in mind when portraying a soldier who has seen action before?

    Leave a comment:


  • Pvt. Sweetey
    replied
    Re: The Behavior of Soldiers Wounded in Battle by Kevin O'Beirne, Columbia Rifles

    Originally posted by CJDaley View Post
    In my first unit there was an event you can set your clock to. It happened every year at our annual event at Old Bethpage Village Restoration. It was a fight. Two guys would square off in a mock fight and roll around on the ground for several minutes while everyone stood around and cheered (or laughed). Finally after years of this, a veteran member of the unit (who was also a member of the NYPD) said “Have you ever seen a real street fight? Have you ever been in the center of a bar brawl?” He went on to say that there is no way to fake a fight like that, too many people are milling about unconcerned, there are no real punches and the two combatants aren’t trying to injure the other man. There’s just no way to fake it.

    Carry that into ‘taking hits’ and I agree with him. Why fake something that can be so offensive, sacrilegious and disrespectful? I don’t think anyone who takes a hit intentionally sets out to mock the wounded or dead, but I think it comes off that way to the public sometimes.

    Solutions to taking hits:
    • Just Sit Down In 1996 I helped organize a living history for the public and we had pre-planned hits. At certain points in the battle demo men were schedule to take hits, but instead of dropping to the ground in mock pain, they simply stopped marching forward and sat down on the ground ‘Indian’ style. By the time the demo was over, the demo field was spattered with the ‘wounded’ who were sitting quietly. The impact on the public was just greater than if they had taken ‘hits’.
    • Just Sit Down Part II Another take on the first idea is to end your demo, then ask folks who are wounded (again with pre planned assignments) to simply step out of the ranks or to sit down. The public gets to see the impact of the battle on the original unit you are portraying without the play acting.
    • Just don't do it I’ve participated in small picket posts events were the ‘no hit rule’ was in effect. Basically we did what the soldiers did 99% of the time in the 1860s. We set up CS and US lines a few hundred yards apart and just starred at each other for two days. No (or few) shots, no hits, no wounded, no flanking, no prisoners and no skirmishers. We simply changed guards every few hours, cooked our meals, tried not to freeze and watched the enemy lines. We still had tension as we knew the opposing side was out there someplace. Those are some of the best events I’ve ever attended, but this only works in small number (less than 50 per side)
    • Just don’t do it part II If you’re a big battle, have the announcer tell the public why you aren’t demonstrating wounded/dead soldiers. I think the public will understand you’re doing it out of respect to the Boys of ’61 and will enjoy the reenactment just the same. Radical idea and will probably never happen, but it’s something I’ve thought about for years.
    Sorry, but to me that sounds stupid. If your reenacting 1: You shouldn't have "dead" guys sitting quietly on the ground, they should act DEAD (lay on ground still and quiet). 2: If your going to reenact why the he** would you
    just stare at each other?!?!? The public comes to see battles, excitement, smoke- not people staring at each other for 2 days. That just messes up the whole spirit of reenacting. When we reenact, we aren't scared of having a skirmish here and there. I feel the boys of '61 would want the public to know the truth- PEOPLE DIED

    Leave a comment:


  • Indianabugles
    replied
    Re: The Behavior of Soldiers Wounded in Battle by Kevin O'Beirne, Columbia Rifles

    Having been severely injured in a bike accident several years ago. Broken leg, Massive bruising and a split head, this article made me think. In spite of being hit by the car, thrown through the air and smashing into the ground I felt no pain and in fact had gotten myself off the carriageway, located the remnants of my bike and reassured my Brother I was not dead before the extent of my injuries became apparent to me, then it hurt, Really hurt, so the adrenalin comment is bang on.
    It did make me think also about some accounts of soldiers messing up their own clothing looking for where they had been hit. Why did they not know? Adrenalin again?
    On the whole I would go with go down and lay still. I have only seen two people who have in any way been convincing wounded and one screamed in a way I would have never considered a grown man could and called for his mother, quite chilling, but exceptions.
    I, on the other hand, have seen many "Ham Actors" Portray it in a way that is very bad 1950 B movie and it is a tasteless joke so I would say go down and lay still.
    We are advised to do this for safety as well. Shooting over people laying on the ground face down is safer and they do not end up with a face full of falling crap.

    Leave a comment:


  • rebjeb04
    replied
    Re: The Behavior of Soldiers Wounded in Battle by Kevin O'Beirne, Columbia Rifles

    Wow,
    That was a good article, thanks Mr. O'Beirne! I definetely needed a little assistance in this area. It makes you think and some good thoughts of weighing the costs of war.

    I want to take my hat off to you men here who have served in our more recent conflicts. Im a romantic and probably could'nt handle real combat at all. Thank You, Gentlemen!

    Leave a comment:


  • Andrew Kasmar
    replied
    Re: The Behavior of Soldiers Wounded in Battle by Kevin O'Beirne, Columbia Rifles

    Being wounded myself and seeing others wounded servery there is not much screaming and kicking. The only yelling was for the Corpsman or Medic. Your adrenaline is in full swing and you do not feel the full brunt of the injury until after the fighting dies down. I really do not see a need to do more than lay on the ground when taking a hit. If there are people tending to you, you should then move a little if they ask. The best thing is when litter bearers are running up and down the field picking up bodys IMHO that is as close to real life as we need to get.

    Semper Fi to the other Jarheads who posted on this topic.
    __________________
    Drew Ingram
    Hi,

    Thank you for your service to our country. Also, thank you for posting your knowledge on the subject of wounded soldiers, I have wondered about that for some time.

    Leave a comment:


  • 7thNJcoA
    replied
    Re: The Behavior of Soldiers Wounded in Battle by Kevin O'Beirne, Columbia Rifles

    Being wounded myself and seeing others wounded servery there is not much screaming and kicking. The only yelling was for the Corpsman or Medic. Your adrenaline is in full swing and you do not feel the full brunt of the injury until after the fighting dies down. I really do not see a need to do more than lay on the ground when taking a hit. If there are people tending to you, you should then move a little if they ask. The best thing is when litter bearers are running up and down the field picking up bodys IMHO that is as close to real life as we need to get.

    Semper Fi to the other Jarheads who posted on this topic.

    Leave a comment:


  • cprljohnivey
    replied
    Re: The Behavior of Soldiers Wounded in Battle by Kevin O'Beirne, Columbia Rifles

    It works as for what the state park there wants. They do a blow by blow over the lound speaker. They bill it as a tactical demonstration and stress that the reenactors are only demonstrating how the troops would have moved in battle, but that no hits are being taken. The crowd always applauds at the end. This year is the 250th anniversary. Oct. 9-12 same as Bristoe Station. Ft. Ligonier is east of Pittsburg a short drive form the turnpike.

    For my own personal opinon... I personally disagree with this style of tactical demonstratino as I think having folks shooting muskets at each other with no one at least sitting down or otherwise demonstrating some sort of casualty attrition teaches kids that firing guns has no consequences. That is my own opinion and does not represent the views of this television station...
    Last edited by cprljohnivey; 08-21-2008, 02:31 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • CJDaley
    replied
    Re: The Behavior of Soldiers Wounded in Battle by Kevin O'Beirne, Columbia Rifles

    Originally posted by cprljohnivey View Post
    If you want to see this... go to Fort Ligonier in PA for their Ligonier days event. Its F&I but they do exactly this.
    Does it work?

    Leave a comment:


  • cprljohnivey
    replied
    Re: The Behavior of Soldiers Wounded in Battle by Kevin O'Beirne, Columbia Rifles

    "Just don’t do it part II If you’re a big battle, have the announcer tell the public why you aren’t demonstrating wounded/dead soldiers. I think the public will understand you’re doing it out of respect to the Boys of ’61 and will enjoy the reenactment just the same. Radical idea and will probably never happen, but it’s something I’ve thought about for years. "

    If you want to see this... go to Fort Ligonier in PA for their Ligonier days event. Its F&I but they do exactly this.

    Leave a comment:


  • Andrew Kasmar
    replied
    Re: The Behavior of Soldiers Wounded in Battle by Kevin O'Beirne, Columbia Rifles

    Hi,

    I would say we need to take hits, but leave the fake blood at home. I have seen some very bad hits, with the so called "wounded" rolling around and laughing. That being said, I have seen very good hits, where I actually thought that one of my friends had been wounded. Because I have never been on a real war ( I am very glad about that), I do not know how men react to gun shot wounds. Becasue of this, when I take a hit, I portray killed soldier, and just lay there as still as I can.

    Christopher J. Daley
    Just Sit Down In 1996 I helped organize a living history for the public and we had pre-planned hits. At certain points in the battle demo men were schedule to take hits, but instead of dropping to the ground in mock pain, they simply stopped marching forward and sat down on the ground ‘Indian’ style. By the time the demo was over, the demo field was spattered with the ‘wounded’ who were sitting quietly. The impact on the public was just greater than if they had taken ‘hits’.

    Just Sit Down Part II Another take on the first idea is to end your demo, then ask folks who are wounded (again with pre planned assignments) to simply step out of the ranks or to sit down. The public gets to see the impact of the battle on the original unit you are portraying without the play acting.
    Not a bad idea, but instead of sitting there, I would like them just to lay down. The main thing I have against the just sitting there, is that for me, the battle would just lose something.The article that was posted, is a good one, and I hope to learn something from it. Just my 2 cents.

    Leave a comment:


  • CJDaley
    replied
    Re: The Behavior of Soldiers Wounded in Battle by Kevin O'Beirne, Columbia Rifles

    Originally posted by Dale Beasley View Post
    "It would be interesting to see people dragging severed limbs on and off of the battlefield".--Tyler Gibson

    NO it is not, I assure you.
    In my first unit there was an event you can set your clock to. It happened every year at our annual event at Old Bethpage Village Restoration. It was a fight. Two guys would square off in a mock fight and roll around on the ground for several minutes while everyone stood around and cheered (or laughed). Finally after years of this, a veteran member of the unit (who was also a member of the NYPD) said “Have you ever seen a real street fight? Have you ever been in the center of a bar brawl?” He went on to say that there is no way to fake a fight like that, too many people are milling about unconcerned, there are no real punches and the two combatants aren’t trying to injure the other man. There’s just no way to fake it.

    Carry that into ‘taking hits’ and I agree with him. Why fake something that can be so offensive, sacrilegious and disrespectful? I don’t think anyone who takes a hit intentionally sets out to mock the wounded or dead, but I think it comes off that way to the public sometimes.

    Solutions to taking hits:
    • Just Sit Down In 1996 I helped organize a living history for the public and we had pre-planned hits. At certain points in the battle demo men were schedule to take hits, but instead of dropping to the ground in mock pain, they simply stopped marching forward and sat down on the ground ‘Indian’ style. By the time the demo was over, the demo field was spattered with the ‘wounded’ who were sitting quietly. The impact on the public was just greater than if they had taken ‘hits’.
    • Just Sit Down Part II Another take on the first idea is to end your demo, then ask folks who are wounded (again with pre planned assignments) to simply step out of the ranks or to sit down. The public gets to see the impact of the battle on the original unit you are portraying without the play acting.
    • Just don't do it I’ve participated in small picket posts events were the ‘no hit rule’ was in effect. Basically we did what the soldiers did 99% of the time in the 1860s. We set up CS and US lines a few hundred yards apart and just starred at each other for two days. No (or few) shots, no hits, no wounded, no flanking, no prisoners and no skirmishers. We simply changed guards every few hours, cooked our meals, tried not to freeze and watched the enemy lines. We still had tension as we knew the opposing side was out there someplace. Those are some of the best events I’ve ever attended, but this only works in small number (less than 50 per side)
    • Just don’t do it part II If you’re a big battle, have the announcer tell the public why you aren’t demonstrating wounded/dead soldiers. I think the public will understand you’re doing it out of respect to the Boys of ’61 and will enjoy the reenactment just the same. Radical idea and will probably never happen, but it’s something I’ve thought about for years.

    Leave a comment:

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