canteens

[Slouch]

Re: canteens

Paul,

My limited research suggests that wooden canteens didn't begin showing up in large numbers until 1862 in the AOT and 1863 in the ANV.

I agree that they become more common mid war. However, in Longstreet's memoirs there is a sketch drawn at Sharpsburg in 1862 of a wooden canteen laying on the ground. I can not verify if Longstreet's memory of this sketch having been from Sharpsburg is accurate.

[Bill]

Re: canteens

Bill,

It's a good thing in the message you quoted of mine, that I didn't set any hard-fast rule, about when Wooden Canteens came in use. It is indisputable though, that the wood drum canteens did see use Early-on in the war...possibly even as early as 1861.

Note: In my message, which you quoted, I even suggest that canteens of the tin drum configuration, were probably more prevalent throughout the war than their wood counterparts.

Paul B.

Paul,

I'm certainly not suggesting that no Confederate soldiers carried wood canteens prior to 1862. Wood canteens were common in the civilian world, as well as some unknown number of surplus Government canteens may well have been floating around. But, that's much different than mass issues, of what we call Gardner Pattern, canteens.

One of the best ways to track the issue of Gardner Pattern canteens is to watch when the Yankees started sending them home as souvenirs. I forget exactly when they started showing up out west, but it was in 1862. In the east, lots of them start showing up after Chancellorsville. Admittedly much of this is guesswork; since, as was mentioned in another post, lots of issue records just say "canteens".

I quoted your entire passage because I agree with you that tin drum canteens were likely more prevalent than the "Gardner" canteens and more important, were used throughout the War.

[Renvilleranger21]

Re: canteens

The US Army issued wooden drum style canteens from the War of 1812 until just before the Mexican War. I haven't done any research on their use during the ACW, but they were around in GREAT numbers.

Just my .02

Andy Timmer

[Stonewall_Greyfox]

Re: canteens

Paul,

My limited research suggests that wooden canteens didn't begin showing up in large numbers until 1862 in the AOT and 1863 in the ANV.

Bill,

It's a good thing in the message you quoted of mine, that I didn't set any hard-fast rule, about when Wooden Canteens came in use. It is indisputable though, that the wood drum canteens did see use Early-on in the war...possibly even as early as 1861.

For mass versatility a tin drum of any documented configuration will serve you well...otherwise getting a good wooden "Gardner" pattern canteen will serve you equally as well, as these can be documented throughout the war, but are believed to be somewhat less prevalent than their tin-drum counterparts.

Note: In my message, which you quoted, I even suggest that canteens of the tin drum configuration, were probably more prevalent throughout the war than their wood counterparts.

With the number of Federal Canteens seen in CS Ranks, the somewhat less sizeable amount of tin drums...I think you could afford to see even a full battalion of CS "Gardner" wood drum canteens in ranks, and this would still fall short of reflecting their use during any era of the war. Of course, try finding a full battalion strength of men willing to pay $100+ for a wood canteen.

Paul B.

[Bill]

Re: canteens

.

For mass versatility a tin drum of any documented configuration will serve you well...otherwise getting a good wooden "Gardner" pattern canteen will serve you equally as well, as these can be documented throughout the war, but are believed to be somewhat less prevalent than their tin-drum counterparts.

Paul B.

Paul,

My limited research suggests that wooden canteens didn't begin showing up in large numbers until 1862 in the AOT and 1863 in the ANV.

[lukegilly13]

Re: canteens

warm water is better for your body and is obsorbed much faster than cold. It's not much for taste though. I guess I figure that I got what I paid for...besides, I drank out of the wooden canteen mostly and my plan for the cheap farb tin drum was the break it in half and use it as a mess kit (skillet/plate combo). It serves this purpose well still.

[Stonewall_Greyfox]

Re: canteens

I've done the wooden canteen....soaking them in water will keep them from leaking...what happens to me is that I continually keep water in it at an event....then the water gets warm....I change it...it seems that I go through more water in an event (most of it being poured out)

What's wrong with drinking warm water? I remember from my Nutrition classes in school that warm (not hot, but about room temperature) water is better for your body than the frigid water, that we tend to prefer. This has to do with the shock induced to your body by the temperature of the water, and the ability for your body to use the water without having to "heat-it-up" first. If your'e constantly pouring H2O out at events (and not into you mouth, stew pot, or muzzle of your gun), then your probably not attending very rigorous events.

than I did when I first started reenacting and i had a confederate tin drum that I paid 15 bucks for and it leaked out of the box. You are right about the Gettysburg pic and thanks for reminding me of that!

If I bought a brand-new canteen that leaked out of the box, you can bet I would take the issue up with the vendor who sold it to me.

Does anyone know if rolled tin or pewter spouts have a year association (i.e. is one of them more common early war or late war)?

If your'e talking Confederate canteens...I don't know that there is any information to support a set time period (other than 1859-1865) for specific spout construction/materials. Since these were mainly made throughout the war by small shops or contract shops, I don't believe there's the paper trail that you see with the Federal Canteens (St. Louis...Philadelphia...etc.). A rolled tin spout can be documented throughout the entire war as seen in original images and surviving relics today...with regards to the pewter/lead spout, someone else will have to comment on what they've seen.

Paul B.

[lukegilly13]

Re: canteens

I've done the wooden canteen....soaking them in water will keep them from leaking...what happens to me is that I continually keep water in it at an event....then the water gets warm....I change it...it seems that I go through more water in an event (most of it being poured out) than I did when I first started reenacting and i had a confederate tin drum that I paid 15 bucks for and it leaked out of the box. You are right about the Gettysburg pic and thanks for reminding me of that!

Does anyone know if rolled tin or pewter spouts have a year association (i.e. is one of them more common early war or late war)?

[Stonewall_Greyfox]

Re: canteens

Thanks Paul and Jim! Exactly what I was looking for! It seems to me that a good flat side drum will be my next purchase! Probably will go with the woven cotton sling but might look at split slings as well.

Luke,

If your'e opting for a tin drum, then I would stay away from a split sling. Out of the 1/2 dozen images I've seen, & the originals I've seen in museums/shows/books these "split-leather" slings only appear on presumably Federal M1858 canteens (smoothside/bullseye). Instead I would strongly recommend a webbed canteen sling...or some variation of folded fabric (linen, ticking, cotton), which also has limitless options for closure; button, small harness buckle, suspender "braces" buckle, stitched...etc.

Paul B.

[Jimmayo]

Re: canteens

The Cold Harbor picture is the earliest I have seen pictures of the split strap. However, that doesn't mean they were not around prior to then, say in late 63 but that is just a WAG.

It is interesting to note that the canteen in the pic is a bullseye. The picture attached is a closeup of the Alsop farm picture.

[westcoastcampaigner]

Re: canteens

If you're going with a flat side tin drum canteen, might I suggest Otter Creek tinware. I have one of his and it's great! Hope you find what you are looking for. Take care.

Regards,

Josh Sawyer
Liberty Rifles

[lukegilly13]

Re: canteens

Thanks Paul and Jim! Exactly what I was looking for! It seems to me that a good flat side drum will be my next purchase! Probably will go with the woven cotton sling but might look at split slings as well.

[HOG.EYE.MAN]

Re: canteens

The pictures taken at Alsop's farm also show a dead CS soldier with a bullseye canteen and split strap. The split strap appears to have been a CS issued strap but only because there is no evidence which has surfaced indicating Federal use. There are several pictures of surviving ones on my canteen page.

Back in 2004, Paul Calloway, provided this image on split straps:


"Spotsylvania Court House, Va., vicinity. Body of another Confederate soldier near Mrs. Alsop's house].


O'Sullivan, Timothy H., 1840-1882, photographer.


CREATED/PUBLISHED
[1864 May]

SUMMARY
Photograph from the main eastern theater of war, Grant's Wilderness Campaign, May-June 1864.

NOTES
Reference: Civil War photographs, 1861-1865 / compiled by Hirst D. Milhollen and Donald H. Mugridge, Washington, D.C. : Library of Congress, 1977. No. 0298

Title from Milhollen and Mugridge. Forms part of Selected Civil War photographs, 1861-1865 (Library of Congress)"

[westcoastcampaigner]

Re: canteens

Ditto to what Paul said above.

There are federal canteens being carried by Confederate soldiers and pictured in the LOC pictures taken around Petersburg. The Five Forks prisoner picture shows several canteens which appear to be uncovered M-1858 canteens however the picture is too out of focus to provide a detailed examination. The pictures taken at Alsop's farm also show a dead CS soldier with a bullseye canteen and split strap. The split strap appears to have been a CS issued strap but only because there is no evidence which has surfaced indicating Federal use. There are several pictures of surviving ones on my canteen page.

Jim or Paul,

Is there any kind of timeframe as to when the split leather canteen strap came into being among Confederate troops. Would they be appropriate for Gettysburg timeframe or does that seem too early based on the images you have seen? I just made one and can't wait to use it in the field. Thanks for the help.


Best Regards,

Josh Sawyer
Liberty Rifles

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: canteens

Hallo!

"So, finally, is the beeswax lining a reenactorism to prevent rustwater or is this a period practice (also were originals "hot dipped"or could we ever know)?"

n brief and to over-generalize... a reenactorism to try to get modern electro-late steel not rust whne it it is not dried and stored properly- and to extend the life of tinware for years instead of just to the next supply/reissuance cycle.

IMHO, and I should let a "period" tinsmith answer... but "hot dipped" is coating sheet steel to "simulate" the Period technology of "pickling vat" treating sheet iron (a process no longer in use and expensive to replicate).

Curt