Improving Repro Bayonets.

[Grabenkater]

I have noticed that most of the reproduction bayonets (Italian included) I have handled are much too heavy/clunky.

I am considering regrinding my repro 42 bayonet, and then retempering it.

Has anyone else attempted this? I am curious if I am the only one with these crazy ideas.

[Rear Rank 2]

Re: Improving Repro Bayonets.

For a very reasonable sum you can obtain an original from College Hill Arsenal. I bought both an M-1855 and M-1842 here and have been very pleased with price, service, and promptness of delivery.
Cheers

[Grabenkater]

Re: Improving Repro Bayonets.

Andy,

I appreciate the advice, but since I am a competent metal worker (smith), I would prefer to save some scratch for other items that I cannot make/improve. I am certain that I can take a 35-dollar reproduction and improve it to the point that it will pass muster.

[Dutchman Dick]

Re: Improving Repro Bayonets.

Andy,

I appreciate the advice, but since I am a competent metal worker (smith), I would prefer to save some scratch for other items that I cannot make/improve. I am certain that I can take a 35-dollar reproduction and improve it to the point that it will pass muster.

Only problem is, many of the repros are made of mild steel that won't take a temper (which is why they're made heavier in the first place). Grinding it thinner will just make it more prone to bending. If you have access to the materials, and have the necessary tools and skills, you might try fabricating a new blade and "elbow" from heavy drill rod (oil hardening) and welding it onto your old socket, tempering it afterwards. Seems like a lot of monkeybusiness, though...:confused_

[Gawd Awful Lad]

Re: Improving Repro Bayonets.

Personally after snapping three italian repros in half, an original is the best route.
Not to mention if you go to the Horse Soldier or any other dealer you can try them out and get a nice comfy fit. Plus I thought the italian repros lack the markings of an original.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Improving Repro Bayonets.

Hallo!

I am too much of a Luddite, and definitely NOT a machinist, to give a good answer.

In my mind, a milling machine could be set up to cut the three tapered sides of the blade, and the fullers (for bayonets that have them) ground. And the whole repolished.

As shared, the steel is wrong for a true functional and not just jewelry bayonet. I think the best that might could be done is to attempt to increase carbon in the blade in teh same manner that mild steel was made into "blister steel" in the pre19th centuries. But, at best, that would be an M & M thin outer candy shell affair- and the blade could still not be hardened and tempered back to flexible "springy" as was a real bayonet.

Again, I am not a machinist, but you may would need an alchemist first and then a machinist's skills and tools.

Others' mileage will vary...

Curt

[Grabenkater]

Re: Improving Repro Bayonets.

Only problem is, many of the repros are made of mild steel that won't take a temper (which is why they're made heavier in the first place). Grinding it thinner will just make it more prone to bending. If you have access to the materials, and have the necessary tools and skills, you might try fabricating a new blade and "elbow" from heavy drill rod (oil hardening) and welding it onto your old socket, tempering it afterwards. Seems like a lot of monkeybusiness, though...:confused_

Some of the Indian blades are in fact mild steel. However, I have reworked many of the reproduction blades from Windlass Steelcrafts and everyone of the blades have been steel with a decent carbon content. I recently reworked a Roman sword blade made by Windlass, and it actually had a very good temper to it already.

I believe I could in fact harden one of the reproduction bayonets. Granted, I am not going to be actually using my bayonet as an offensive weapon anytime soon, so I do not have to worry about bending, or snapping it under normal re-enacting conditions.

I will test the Windlass bayonet soon, and report back if it will actually harden or not.

[dtrain815]

Re: Improving Repro Bayonets.

i will agree that most repro bayonets are junk but i have a bayonet for my m1842 musket that i bought for about 100 bucks, repro. it was advertised as being made of high quality tempered spring steel with proper US markings on the blade. anyone have any experiences with this bayonet good or bad? while on the subject, does anyone sell a decent repro, possibly defarbed version, of a mississippi bayonet?

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Improving Repro Bayonets.

Hallo!

I believe you might be talking abut the "Italian made" reproduction bayonets.
I have their M1842, M1855, and British M1853 socket bayonets.
While I find the "quality" higher than the Indian or Pakistani made ones, I have not yet seen any proof that they are "better" other than in appearance.
I have seen Italian made "Springfield" bayonets bend and not return when used in attempts to dig or to erect shelter halves with- but have not seen or heard the same for the M1842. (I don't risk either myself.)

Regarding the "M1841" or "M1855" or "Zouave" sword bayonets used on the M1841, there is no reproduction of the M1841 sword bayonet that is even decent.
Depending upon the Indian or Pakistani maker- the hilts are so-so, but the blades vary with NONE have the unique curve of the original all the way down to a straight, "machete" style blade. Quality among the poor or bottom varies, and there is no middle or top.
You may want to sue the SEARCH feature to look up discussions on them, as well as ideas such as griding the bladesw closer to shape, or trying to substitute the repro British P1856 sword bayonet blade in the repro M1841 hilt, or biting the bullet and using an original, etc.

Curt

[flattop32355]

Re: Improving Repro Bayonets.

Might I suggest two possible tests for your initial effort to see if reworking is successful?

Use the musket with bayonet attached as a tent pole, and use the bayonet as a digging tool. Both are period correct uses

If it can stand up to both without breaking or distortion bending, I'd say you were successful.

[hardtack61]

Re: Improving Repro Bayonets.

Might I suggest two possible tests for your initial effort to see if reworking is successful?

Use the musket with bayonet attached as a tent pole, and use the bayonet as a digging tool. Both are period correct uses

If it can stand up to both without breaking or distortion bending, I'd say you were successful.

WOW...
Just go with an original bayonet..
save yourself the burns and whatnot.
you wont be disapointed

[claynpendleton]

Re: Improving Repro Bayonets.

Are there any good (better) repro bayonets being made that have correct markings and strength? As a collector I hate to use mint originals out in the field.
-Clay Pendleton

[J.H.Berger]

Re: Improving Repro Bayonets.

Paul, you might want to try to "carbonize" the blade by puting it in a tube with horn or leather pieces and glow it for a while in the fire. I haven't tested this yet but this way you can get some carbon in the upper layers of the material although this will certainly give you not the same quality of steel like spring steel. Another option would be: try to get an original french M1822 bayonet. They are not that expensive and fit exactely on the M1842. In fact the only difference between it and the M1842 bayonet is the end of the fuller of the blade. I was surprised when I tried it on my Armi Sport M1842. It fits as if it was made for it!
By the way I am also a blacksmith ( artist blacksmith) by trade:D

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Improving Repro Bayonets.

Hallo!

"Are there any good (better) repro bayonets being made that have correct markings and strength? As a collector I hate to use mint originals out in the field."

Short and long answer: no.

When it comes to bayonets one is dealing with trying to seek out the best of the poor, poorer, or poorest.

I am out of the loop, so I do not know what the Italians are still making (or not) when it comes to the M1855, M1842, or P1853 socket bayonets. I believe they still make the M1855 and M1842, but have not made the P1853 in many years.

IMHO, bayonets are cheaply made to be decorations or "jewelry" and by not using the proper steel or using the same Civil War era manufacturing methods particualrly when it comes to hardening, tempering, and testing the "flex" of the blade to spring back and not bend. So, repro bayonets do not function or perform in use as originals.

I do not believe that surface hardening a repro bayonet would help in anything other than sharpening (which was not done- the socket bayonet relying on its point). In the 18th century, mild steels were surface treated with carbon to make "blister steel" for edged weapons and tools. This essentially forced carbon into the surface of the steel creating a hard "M & M" like outer shell that would hold an edge (until the "candy layer" was sharpened through).

The key to a functional bayonet lies in a softer "elbow" that can flex and not snap, as well as a blade that can bend and spring back to normal without staying bent.
IMHO, in theory, IF the carbon content of the bayonet is "high enough," the blade does stand to be hardened and then tempered to have "flex."

While we do not "stab" with bayonets, if one digs, or say attempts to erect a shelter half using bayonet mounted muskets.... ;)
Plus, I have seen socket bayonets "get bent" at the elbows just by the pressures of stacking arms.

Curt