Mystery M1855 lock

[ndnchf]

I have a reproduction M1855 lock that is very well made, but I don't know who made it. It is missing a few parts such as the primer door, door catch and primer feed mechanism parts. It is dated 1861 and marked Harpers Ferry. It is also color case hardened which is very unusual. I tried the lock retaining screws from a Miroku 1861 and they fit this lock, so it appears to have metric threads. The only identifying marks are on the inside of the lock plate, the initials JP and H. It appears to be fully machined for the Maynard pimer feed parts, although they are missing.

I've posted a few photos here:
http://outdoors.webshots.com/album/576612643UTfocW

Cany anyone shed light on this lock? Who made it? Why was it color case hardened? I would like to at least get a door and catch for it so I can use it.

Thanks

Steve Blancard
13th Va. Co A.

[brown]

Re: Mystery M1855 lock

Did someone have in mind using it as an early Richmond assembled or repaired piece from captured parts and weapons? That was my first thought when I saw the 1861 HF marking.

[August77]

Re: Mystery M1855 lock

It looks like a James River Armory lock. the ones he was making for the 'Stonewall Jackson' variants. The Confederacy was assembling guns with the '55 parts but not finishing the Maynard system. I've been told some of the originals have this part filled with lead also.

[Sut Lovingood]

Re: Mystery M1855 lock

I know not where your lock came from but parts may be available from The Rifle Shoppe. I also have one made by Rich Cross.

[Craig L Barry]

Re: Mystery M1855 lock

The case coloring and HF 1861 lock marking is the giveaway, as Mr Lomas points out this is
from Mark Hartman at James River Armory. It's problematic what to do with it because it is
such an oddball early war Richmond variation. As far as finishing it w/ an 1855 door, the problem there is that
this is a Euroarms plate, or made to fit Euroarms and there is no screw pin to hold the door shut.
If you added a Maynard tape primer door to the lock it would just flop around unless you weld it shut.

All that said, if you want to proceed probably Lodgewood Mfg or S&S in NYC is your best bet
to find a door for a Maynard tape primer lock plate. I'd leave it "as is."

[ndnchf]

Re: Mystery M1855 lock

Gents,

Thanks for your replys. I've sent an e-mail to JRA asking about it. I see that S&S lists the door and pin catch parts. But if this is a Euroarms made lock, the question is - would these parts fit? I would be satisfied to have it non functional if I can get the parts. Would these parts be available via Euroarms?

In the "Guns of Harpers Ferry" book, there is a reference to early production M1855 rifles having case hardened locks. I haven't seen anything about very late production M1855 rifle-musket locks being case hardened. Does anyone know of documentation that supports this? Just wondering why someone would go to the trouble of case hardening these locks.

Thanks again.

Steve Blancard
13th Va Co. A.

[David Fox]

Re: Mystery M1855 lock

By the bye, has anyone ever seen an original HF lockplate dated 1861? Or any M.1855 lockplate so dated? I'm on the road so can't check my books, but believe (a vile word in the forum, I acknowledge) Springfield didn't bring the M.1855s beyond December 31, 1860. Whitney M.1855 rifle-muskets were, as I recall, dated in the 1850s(?) And that HF was fibulating in 1861, the employees traumatized yet by John Brown's raid and the election/secession events. By any measure, an 1861-dated HF lockplate is objectively a rarity, like unto an 1865 Richmond lockplate.

[ndnchf]

Re: Mystery M1855 lock

Here is a M1855 2 band rifle dated 1861:
http://historical.ha.com/common/view...o=72255&src=pr

Steve Blancard
13th Va. Co. A

[Craig L Barry]

Re: Mystery M1855 lock

IIRC but the HF Armory was producing 1855s through April 1861 when they experienced unannounced visitors from Virginia.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Mystery M1855 lock

Hallo!

I don't it handy, but IIRC, Springfield Armory shut down M1855 RM production shortly after the turn of 1861 in anticipation of retooling to produce the M1861. Or was that Harpers Ferry? I would have to look it up.

I have seen a few Harpers' Ferry's dated 1861, but I cannot recall ever seeing an 1861 dated Springfield M1855. Many 1860's yes, but I am fuzzy on 1861 dated ones.

The color case hardening is tricky. The M1855, M1861, and M1863/M1864 lockplates and hammers were case hardened by water quenching. And the screws oil quenched hardened, as were the rear sights (sights sometimes struck bright).
However, the M1855's and M1861's hammers, lockplates, and screws were then polished bright. That changed for the M1863 when they retained the "colored" hammer and lockplate (dropped for bright again with the M1864).

I once viewed an excellent condition "high hump" 1862 dated Richmond RM
on sale at the Horse Soldier in Gettysburg for $23,500.00 that still had some color on its lock plate and hammer.

IMHO, the "colored" M1855 locks represent "unassembled into guns" parts that had been made but not yet "struck bright" and were used by the state of Virginia on the RM's they assembled before the HF machinery was taken over by the CS.

(M1855's can be annoying. "Flash back" enters the Maynard Tape priming slotm rattles around the inside of the lock under the door, and passes through the rathcet mortise to get to the lock internals- requiring extra clean chores. I took to putting grease in the tape slot to try to keep blow-back out. And eventually, being lazy, went with not using the M1855 tape actuating parts at all.)

Curt

[ndnchf]

Re: Mystery M1855 lock

So do I understand correctly that these locks were sold by JRA just like this (minus the door and other parts) to represent muskets that were assembled with incomplete locks during Jackson's occupation of Harpers Ferry or immediately afterwards in Richmond before the high hump lock plate modification? There must have been a shortage of doors, as I would think they would want them installed to keep dirt/debris out.

How is the door hinge supposed to be attached to the lockplate? Is it a pin peened on the ends or a screw?

Thanks,
Steve Blancard
13th Va. Co. A.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Mystery M1855 lock

Hallo!

The door is pinned/riveted over and under a "stud" on the plate, and is held closed by a very small "screw" friction catch.

Missing doors are "problematical" as to whether they were never put on, or whether they were taken off.

There is a surviving Fayetteville Rifle assembled from the the HF rifle works parts. It has an unmarked M1855 lock with the tape cavity milled, but no milling slots for the "ratchet" works to pass through from the back side.
Its door is missing, broken off with its arms still pinned to the hinge stud.

(IIRC) As there are no known/surviving CS Richmond RM's with milled M1855 plates with any degree of milling, it is assume that Virginia used them all up prior the shipping of production to Richmond and Richmond assembling RM's starting in October 1861 as the CS Richmond plates are all unmilled. (Yeah, I hate using universals like "all.")

Curt

[ndnchf]

Re: Mystery M1855 lock

I really appreciate all the input to this topic.

Here is a little background on my original question:
My unit, the 13th Virginia, Co. A (Montpelier Guard) was present at Harpers Ferry in the May-June 1861 timeframe. There is a book at the Library of Virginia in Richmond which is misleadingly named "Roster, 1851-1861, of Company A, 13th Infantry Regiment". This book was taken at Harpers Ferry by the Montpelier Guard (and it is inscribed in the front as such). The original purpose of the armory book was to record muskets, cones, wipers, etc at the Armory. The Montpelier Guard then used this book to record equipment issued to their troops.

One of our members has reviewed this book. He found that by mid-June 1861 (mostly 11 June) all the soldiers had a "minnie musket and all equipments". Unfortunately, there are no other details pertaining to the muskets.

So we are assuming (a hazardous thing I know) that these were M1855s from the HF armory or assembled from parts from the armory.

My thought is to use this 1861 HF lock to convert my JRA Euroarms 1861 to a represent a M1855 variant that could have been issued to the 13th Va. Co. A. at Harpers Ferry.

My initial thought was to polish the colors off the lock, add the door and other parts to complete it. But now I'm thinking that it is plausable to use it as is. I am intrigued by Mr. Lomas' comment about hearing of originals that have the tape primer cavity filled with lead. This would be an easy way to solve the problem of residue blowing back into the inner lock workings. It would be a simple matter of plugging/masking the machined cuts and screw holes, then filling the cavity with lead.

On a side note, I visited John Zimmerman 2 weeks ago and among many topics, we discussed late production M1855s. He told me that he has seen an official HF armory letter from early 1861 stating that all patchboxes were to be transfered from rifle-musket production to rifle production. In other words, the last M1855s rifle-muskets produced in 1861 were made without patchboxes, only the rifles had patchboxes. I had never heard this before. Has anyone else?

I'd appreciate your thoughts.

Thanks,
Steve Blancard

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Mystery M1855 lock

Hallo!

"On a side note, I visited John Zimmerman 2 weeks ago and among many topics, we discussed late production M1855s. He told me that he has seen an official HF armory letter from early 1861 stating that all patchboxes were to be transfered from rifle-musket production to rifle production. In other words, the last M1855s rifle-muskets produced in 1861 were made without patchboxes, only the rifles had patchboxes. I had never heard this before. Has anyone else?"

Not that I have a closed mind, but considering the source's past reputation for things...

I would REALLY like to see the letter or specimens of RM's that are the later type sands "patchbox."

Others' mileage will vary...

Curt
Who once upon a time, in an era before there were repro M1855 "patchboxes" had to take solid plates, cut them in half, and hand file and drill the "piano" type hinges to make functional boxes Mess

[ndnchf]

Re: Mystery M1855 lock

Yes, I agree. I'd like to see the letter too. The next time I go up to HF, I'll ask if he has a copy of it.

Has anyone actually seen an original lock with a lead filled cavity?

Thanks,
Steve Blancard