.44 Colt cartridge pack data

[Curt Schmidt]

Hallo!

Help please.

We are making some revolver ammuntion, and... sigh...

I cannot find my references to the dimensions of the arsenal or contractor-made .44 Colt paper cartridge packets that consisted of the paper wrapped wooden cartridge protectors/holders or those that fit in the "cardboard" boxes, either with the six holes for six cartridges or the seven holes for the six cartridges and the paper tube of percussion caps.

Also, does anyone have downloadable (or a vendor for that matter) of the packet labels. (I can scan photographs and extrapolate but if the work has already been done before....?

I have been poking through the ARCHIVES here, but when i find a link to the lables they are so old that the links are broken or defunct.

While Dean & Thomas' ROUND BALL TO RIMFIRE VOl 3 is great for packets, it is short on the details to be able to replicate them. I thought I had a volume of THE PITMAN NOTES, but I either have teh wrong volumes and am missing the key one, or my volume was loaned out to a late friend seven years ago to make museum-quality labels and his wife threw it out when he died.

Thanks!

Curt
Deadliest Pistolero since Mild Bill they say Mess

[erik]

Re: .44 Colt cartridge pack data

I would reference "Percussion Ammunition Packets, Union, Confederate & European" by Malloy, Thomas and White, ISBN 1 - 57747 - 93 - 1.
I believe that the packets displayed offer a true size, though there is a disclaimer. I have used a micrometer on the packets pictured and find a uniformity of dimension. I have researched the Colt Navy .36 and found a reasonable uniformity in the depiction of various manufacturers.
The patent drawings in "Colonel Colt London" by Joseph G. Rosa, ISBN 085368 350 6 offer the same proportions based on the caliber of the bullet.
You could do worse.
If you cannot access the books then I could send you some dimensions from my measurements.

Erik Simundson
I am a surveyor and therefore precise or not or matbe.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: .44 Colt cartridge pack data

Hallo!

Thanks for the idea.

I have Percussion Ammunition Packets, Union, Confederate & European...

While I understand the disclaimer about "color" as colors vary by printer and even subsequent printings (a secondary problem with people's PC monitors, cameras, and lighting for images as well), I was bothered, troubled, perplexed by why the authors did not share dimensions, or for that matter make the images true-to-life size.

At any rate, "They are presented in full color, bu the individual labels may or may not be the 'exact' color and size as the originals."

While disappointed, I wrote, write, it off not so much as "unacademic" or "unhistorical," but rather as a back-door concession if not nod to counterfeiters, frauds, and cheats.

Sigh.

But yes, I guess they might be, could be, used as "close enough for reenacting, er government work" if all else fails.

Double sigh.

Curt

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: .44 Colt cartridge pack data

Hallo!

Danke lads, for the help. I appreciate it.

I just got news that my favourite horse, an almost 40 year old paint named Cherry fell for the last time and could not get up, and had to be killed.
So I am a bit sad.

I have Malloy's/Thomas'/White's PERCUSSION AMMUNITION PACKETS: UNION, CONFEDERATE, & EUROPEAN.

Thanks to them, and a few on-line sites I can scan, and reproduce a bewildering number and all manner of crisp and like-new "labels" 'til the cows come home

Where I am lacking is that I do not own any packets myself, to be able to measure the dimensions of the packets themselves so that I/we can make the drilled wooden blocks that go inside to hold the paper cartridges and sometimes the percussion caps.

I was also holding out hope that a vendor/sutler might have already produced high quality repro "labels/wrappers" and save me the work.

;) :)

To prevent fraud and counterfeiting, Malloy/Thomas/White do not reproduce their images to be life size. NOR do they cite dimensions. One assumes they are life size, but they warn they are just "close."

On the one hand, I can fudge and extrapolate the size of the packets and let "close enough" be "good enough" for reproducing them as "who is going to know the difference."
But...

;)

This is going to sound negative and critical, and maybe it is, but has NOT the cavalry or mounted community kept pace with the infantry when it comes to carbine and revolver ammunition?

:(

Thanks again for those who helped!

Miss you Cherry.

Curt
Who in his CS Officer Daze, carried two Richmond Laboratory packets for his revolver Mess

[Blair]

Re: .44 Colt cartridge pack data

Curt,

I am saddened to here of the lose of your buddy, Cherry.

I once had a Maryland State Park Range explain to me that "horses" were not "Pets"!

I asked him if he had ever tried to explain that to a horse owner... and gotten away with it. That is to say, without being laughed at for being so foolish?
He didn't get it.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: .44 Colt cartridge pack data

Hallo!

It was a bit strange at the stables today. No Cherry to come and see me.

Yeah.... As Dr. Phil's Life Law No. 1 says: "You either get it, or you don't.

:)

Curt

[erik]

Re: .44 Colt cartridge pack data

Curt,
At this sad time for you, I must ask what has been the outcome of the cartridge packet dimensions as this topic has been perplexing me for a long time. I am interested in Colt .36 packages but am interested in the whole topic. There must be limiting dimensions based on the calibre and length of cartridges. I based my recommendation on micrometer readings on illustrated bullets, cartridges and readings on cartridge packages as shown in the illustrations, in the noted reference.
Any further references would be appreciated.

Erik

[Jimmayo]

Re: .44 Colt cartridge pack data

This help anyone out? Sorry I don't have measurments but I do have some more pics.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: .44 Colt cartridge pack data

Hallo!

Hallo!

Thanks to Herr Dave, I have one set of block dimensions. Plus my own reference images of packs and blocks. PLUS the Malloy/Thomas/White images for label options.
And thanks to ye lads who sent some labels!

So far, that has been it
It may be snarky or snooty on my part, but either lads were not interested in sharing, or not that many lads have "data" on packs and blocks because they do not use them.

;) :)

So, anyone interested, here is a progress report on this project:

1. We can make "Lane" packets.

2. With the dimensions of one block, we can now move ahead and produce sundry labels to fit that block "pretending" say a Colt factory or Allegheny Arsenal pack is the same as a Lane.

3. Or, we can forget about Period dimensions and go with a "close has to be good enough" by copying the Malloy/Thomas/White images and turnng them into wrappers and extrapolating wooden block dimensions from what the wrappers demand (for example, some packets are rectangles, others are square, some are seven holed, most six, etc., etc.

ALSO, I love pictures.

Plus, images of originals allows for a "rough extrapolation" of dimensions IF one has cartridges in the picture. Using say caliphers one can measure the known diameter of the bullet, and then apply that measurement to the holes, hole spacing, and from there the block dimensions.

Cartridge Curt