Cleaning Gear

[riverratmess]

I got a little bit of mold on my leather. Is there a good way to clean it without destroying it?

Thanks.

[Stonewall_Greyfox]

Re: Cleaning Gear

Light wash with water...maybe even using a little saddle soap. Let it dry openly and naturally. What leather gear is it that has mold? Some things like acoutrements you can treat "lightly" with neatsfoot oil...

Paul B. Boulden Jr.

RAH VA MIL '04

[RockCityGuard]

Re: Cleaning Gear

Shoot man.... don't be shy.... scrub that stuff up with some good old lye soap and throw on some leather polish or even bacon grease in a pinch. Wear and sun does wonders for mildew on leathers.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Cleaning Gear

Hallo Kamerad!

Just to add...

Not all whitish-gray spots on leather items is mildew- some can be fat being forced out of the leather by the tanning.

At any rate, mildew grows due to moisture such as leather goods being put away wet and not dried off or "air dried." (It happens...)

If one blackens their leather items with blackening (modern wax shoe polish works) several times a year, it tends to seal the pores of the leather not allowing moisture into the leather to grow mildew/mold colonies (mold spores are in the air just looking for a new home...just add water and wait).

(Using linseed oil can promote mold growth, and Neastsfoot Oil Compound may deteriorate/rot linen thread holding goods together...)

Curt Heinrich Schmidt

[DonSmithnotTMD]

Re: Cleaning Gear

I'm guessing pork fat (all I've ever used on my leather, except for shoes which I have blackened) can contribute to this.

[riverratmess]

Re: Cleaning Gear

Thanks All for your help.

[flattop32355]

Re: Cleaning Gear

Hallo Kamerad!
If one blackens their leather items with blackening (modern wax shoe polish works) several times a year, it tends to seal the pores of the leather
Curt Heinrich Schmidt

Is using modern wax shoe polish considered period correct?

[Vuhginyuh]

Re: Cleaning Gear

At any rate, mildew grows due to moisture such as leather goods being put away wet and not dried off or "air dried." (It happens...)

Wipe your leather off, let it dry out of direct sunlight. If you are in the field, do not dry it by a fire. Provide plenty of ventilation.

Is using modern wax shoe polish considered period correct?

I have never seen original leather artifact that looked like it had a modern petrolium based shoe polish on it.


This isn’t an indictment of any member. It is a simple caveat and kind hearted appeal to those who value their possessions.

If you want to keep your accouterments for a prolonged period of time or have your firearms or white arms last at least a generation, please do not use bacon grease or salt-pork fat as a cleaner or preservative. They are the worst foe of any organic fiber, wood, hide or ferrous metal.

Put what is necessary into your haversack... but don’t be lulled into thinking you are prolonging the life and use of your weapons or leather with cured animal fat and salt.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Cleaning Gear

Hallo Kameraden!

"Is using modern wax shoe polish considered period correct?"

A good point, thanks.

"I have never seen original leather artifact that looked like it had a modern petrolium based shoe polish on it."

Neither have I.

Modern "vegetable tanned" leather generally has an oil content of 16-19% when it leaves the tannery. It is recommended for long-life and preservati0n that it contial an oil content of 20-30%.
However, excessive oiling and greasing does not aid in preservation, it accelerates destruction by filing and swelling the "empty" skin cells causing them to swell and break down (burst).

To further the discussion:

There is a Psychological Standard at work here, a "hobbyism" of sorts.

Since we are not actual CW soldiers using government issued clothing and gear, and since we do have an "allowance" with replacement issuances to look forward to...
For whatever reasons right or wrong, we tend to want to preserve and extend the working and usable life expectancy of our kit. (Granted we use it for days a year versus the months of "everyday" CW soldiers did.)

Second, we employ sliding, progressive, levels of Psychological Standards depending upon our F/M/C/P/H/A orientation and practices.
Meaning, are we discussing possibly applying modern shoe wax to leatherwares already dyed and sealed with modern acrylic-based products?

Are we using modern "boiled linseed oil" to so-called "de-farb" our stocks?
Are we using other than water to clean the bores of our so-so Italian repro firearms?
Are we wearing garments dyed with modern aniline dye that replicates the use of vegetable dye (indigo)?

My personal practice is to maintain my leather items with a mixture of CW mutton tallow and beeswax or beef tallow and beeswax (when low or out, sometimes non- CW bear oil and beeswax- shhhhhhhhhhhh) about once a year on vinegaroon dyed leathers. (But I plan on "re-vinegaroon" dyeing the badly "worn" ones some day...)

Would someone post the chemical analysis or the ingredients in J.S. Mason's or Patt's boot black?

(Any traces of CW era blacking used on accoutrements would be hard to find on surviving artifacts... ;-) )

Just teasing... :-)

But my serious point for discussion is Psychological Standards... (The Personal Choice and Personal/Group/Association Standard of how pure and perfect should we be, how pure and perfect can we be? And where and how often to we allow ourselves to fall short of the Perfection?) [Not looking for agremeent or concensus here... ;-) ]

Curt-Heinrich Schmidt

[P. M. Cunningham, Tinner]

Re: Cleaning Gear

The sun does wonders for fighting mold; however, pending how deep the mold has penetrated the pore structure of the leather, it can be a losing battle. I've seen mold reappear. The simple solution, vinegar. Penetrates the leather enough to destory any lingering deposits. I spent three years working in modern shoe repair shops and vinegar was always kept around for dealing with mold, fungus, and salt stains. I've had to wipe down full hides I had stored in a damp basement (yes, I ain't real bright sometimes!) and have yet to see damage or mold reappear after wiping down with vinegar.

Shoe polish I would definitely deem as a no-no. Pending what you are using, you can be looking at ruining more than your historic aspect of your leather gear. Polishes can rub off on clothing. That is the reason why we always did dye jobs on things like handbags and belts in order to refurbish them.

The worse damage for leather comes from it getting wet, as it dries it pulls some of the oils out. I use a similiar mixture on my goods as Curt listed. My recipe is 50% tallow/50% neatsfoot oil/a tad of beeswax applied slightly warm. I have done the bacon grease trick when rushed to get somewhere, I know it will be wet, and nothing else is available. Detrimental to the leather and stitches, maybe, but I haven't seen it. I'm still wearing my brogs I made while I was at Sturbridge twenty years ago. I had to rework my seat stitches a few years ago because they gave up (probably due more to my lack of care than anything). There are plenty of modern leather balms, oils, and conditioners manufactured today if you want to stay away from historic animal oils. Only problem I have had is the fact that after oiling, my leathers become a chew snack for my animals.

Keep your gear oiled, let it dry well before storage. Mold appears, treat it like a salad. Vinegar and oil.

Patrick Cunningham

[Vuhginyuh]

Re: Cleaning Gear

My recipe is 50% tallow/50% neatsfoot oil/a tad of beeswax applied slightly warm

I am inclined to agree. Tallow is rendered fat, not salt cured fat.

There is a simlar formula that is reasonably accepted with British conservationists. It includes a small part of mink oil rather than neatsfoot. They deal with tanned hides centuries older than what we are currently discussing.

What is good for period leather is certainly good for new.

I also need to question why some leather mildews while some does not. I have seen issues with mold in leather that is not tanned properly or still a bit raw.

[Vuhginyuh]

Re: Cleaning Gear

This is what we recommend.

THIS IS FOR NEW LEATHER ONLY...do not use this on artifacts.

(7 oz) lanolin or tallow
(1 oz) cedarwood oil (a fungicide)
(½ oz) beeswax

Heat and apply, for dryer leather let the application rest three days before wiping off. This will darken any finish so test on a hidden spot if possible.

The cedarwood oil can be used alone as an anti-fungal and pesticide treatment. Use the Virginia Cedar or juniperus virginiana oil and not the Western Red Cedar oil. It stains leather and cloth with an amber tint.

If anyone is interested in our formula for historic leather send me a private message and I'll send it to you (along with the warnings).

[Vuhginyuh]

Re: Cleaning Gear

I just found the same recipe above in the 1858 United States Dispensatory.

It reads as such;

LARD, tallow
JUNIPERUS VIRGINIANA, cedar oil
CERA FLAVA, yellow bee's wax


This mixture was used on burns, blisters, insect bites and as a bug repellant! The parts measure about the same as a body salve as the recipe for the leather treatment!

U.S. Despensatory, p449, 11th Edition
Drs. Wood & Bache
J. P. Lippincort and Co.
Philledelphia
1858

[WBailey]

Re: Cleaning Gear

I have never seen original leather artifact that looked like it had a modern petrolium based shoe polish on it.
QUOTE]


I have used Kiwi polish on my dress shoes for years and after reading this I called them and asked. I was told there is no petroleum used in there shoe polish.

Here is there customer service # 1-800-392-7733.

If it is not a petroleum base why not use it on your gear?

Wes.

[billwatson]

Re: Cleaning Gear

Meltonian shoe cream is apparently something that was in use in our period and is still available today. It's essentially blacking (althought it now comes in a variety of colors). I have no information on the chemical formula then or now. We've seen the ad for Meltonian stuff in old newspapers from the CW. Just a footnote.

Mainly I wanted to mention that vinegar is pretty good at wrecking mold and mildew, since it creates a mold-and-mildew-hostile environment without wrecking the leather. Hit the thing with some vinegar, wipe it down and see what happens. The vinegar can brighten up the brass a bit, too.

What should happen is that the mold not immediately loosened and wiped away withers into dust in a very short period of time, a day or two. If you then get after the leather with blacking and whatnot, and store it someplace with some air circulation, you should be OK. I'm looking at a .36 Navy holster that got pushed behind a shelf in the basement and forgotten for a very wet year. I just about threw it out when I found it. After some vinegar and then some blacking, it looks as good as new.

Neatsfoot oil: the more I fool with it, the more I think it needs to be used judiciously, like when somebody leaves leather too near the fire for too long. Neatsfoot,the pure stuff, is organic, literally oil from the animal providing the leather. Add enough to leather and it is no longer leather but reverts to skin, which has none of the attributes sought by converting skin into leather in the first place. So, yeah, if you've got something leather that's TOO stiff and dried out, neatsfoot, maybe. But carefully.

Here's a funny story about neatsfoot, on me: had a great pair of hiking boots when I was younger, and about a year ago, in the process of cleaning up a lot of neglected equipment, I gave them a good cleaning and, since they were dry, a thorough dousing of neatsfoot. Put them on a shelf and forgot about them. A couple of weeks ago my son's Scout troop was going on the Appalachian Trail, and these shoes fit him better than they did me, so he got what I told him would be "the best hiking shoes he'd ever own." Well, they were, for about a mile, then the Vibram soles started coming off. The neatsfoot had worked its way through all the leather down to the glue, and had loosened the bond between all the soles and the shoe. Since he had to hike two days and I only had to do one, I traded shoes with him. By the time I got back to the car I had nothing but the upper soles under me, and they were held on with masking tape, twine, and a knee brace I put around one foot. Like Viet Cong sandals. My wife teased that I'd do a Ragged Confederate impression even on a Scout hike, and boy did I get a lot of looks from all the slick young hikers in their natty shoes. Petty funny. Anyway, the point of the story is, too much neatsfoot is a bad idea on leather, and I can prove it.