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M1841 Rifle .58 and .54 Alterations, Pt 1

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  • M1841 Rifle .58 and .54 Alterations, Pt 1

    Hallo Kameraden!

    These few postings are intended to serve as a Quick & Easy “How To” alter or modify the Mexican War era M1841 rifle to several of its more commonly found Civil War era forms.

    They are not intended to cover the basic “de-farb” concepts that can be SEARCHed and found on the threads on Springfields and Enfields, as well as “advanced de-farb‘ concepts such as adding barrel, lockplate, and stock stampings.. Nor are they intended to make silk purses out of Italian sows’ ears.

    But, like so-called “de-farbs,“ they will allow one to make some improvements to the out-of-the-box Italian reproductions as well as “up-date” them to the larger CW usage types.

    I will be looking at a number of alterations:

    1. Two types of Colt alterations
    2. Four types of U.S. arsenal
    3. Possibly a Palmetto Arsenal (not an alteration but a manufactory)

    HISTORY:

    On July 5, 1855 Secretary of War Jefferson Davis ordered that the calibre of .58 be adopted along with the (combustible) Minie cartridge. This order also adopted the new M1855 Rifle to replace the M1841 Rifle. It was also decided to “upgrade” the M1841’s in inventory with sabre bayonets and long range rear sights to match the new M1855 rifles. In 1859, it was decided to modify the M1841 rifles to take a angular socket bayonet instead of the sabre or sword bayonet (these being M1855 .58 bayonets as well as M1842 .69 bayonets).

    When President Lincoln called for 42,000 volunteers to join the U.S. Army on May 3, 1861, the Ordnance Department realized it may not actually have enough .58 weapons to issue them- so a look was given to what was “in inventory.” One of the ideas from Chief of Ordnance Lt. Colonel James Ripley was to alter the stocks of .54 M1841 rifles to .58.

    Samuel Colt was offered a deal to rebore and add sabre bayonets, and sold the rifles at a price of $10.00 per gun (but without what his charge would be). He was sent a sample rifle in June of 1861, and agreed to do the work. By July, 11, 368 M1841’s in store at New York, Washington, Watertown, and Watervliet Arsenals were shipped to Colt in Hartford, CT.

    Colt pulled somewhat of a fast one, adding sabre bayonets without reboring, and quickly sold of 468 of them to Connecticut to fulfill a contract, but at $25.00 a rifle. (a nice profit).

    The Ordnance Department was furious, but desperate. By August, work was allowed to start. In February of 1862, a price was agreed upon of $18.50 (Colt‘s cost in bayonets, parts, and labor being $4.07 on top of the $10.00 cost of the rifle for a total of $14.07).

    The saber bayonets and splines came from Collins & Company for $3.00 and 6.47 cents each. The adjusting screws on the splines came from American Screw Company for 60 cents per hundred. And Colt’s labor came in at just under $1.00 per gun.

    Through the winter of 1862, some 2,000 altered rifles were shipped out to Washington (going to a number of NY regiments) and 8,400 to St. Louis Arsenals (some of which may have come back for several NY regiments). On December 31, 1862 the remaining inventory at Colt was reassessed at $5.00 and in 1863 sold to Schuyler, Hartley, & Graham for $19.00 each plus appendages.

    Colt made a profit on $30,201.34 on the alterations sold to the U.S. Government, roughly $5,500 on the guns sold to Connecticut, and $7,110.00 to Schuyler, Hartley, & Graham. Roughly a return of $42,800 on the “job.”

    COLT ALTERATIONS:

    There are two general types of Colt Alterations:

    First type:

    1. Rebored to .58 with seven lands and grooves, later three.
    2. Long range sight added by expanding the rear sight dovetail from ¼ to ½ inch, and adding a Colt-Root Model 1855 Percussion Repeating Rifle rear sight.
    3. A “bayonet adapter” ring, or detached spline, was clamped on the muzzle.
    4. A four digit serial number is stamped on the spline as well as on the bottom third of the barrel between the front double looped band and the rear of the spline.
    5. Barrels carry additional “reinspection” stamps at the left rear of the breech. These are typically “cc,” “1 CC,” “2 CC,” “3 CC,” or “4 CC.”
    6. The butt stock is stamped on the left side, opposite the lockplate, with an additional inspector stamp carrying the initials “CGC” or “GTB.”
    7. I have found no evidence, so far, calling for either “removing” or “rebrowning” the barrels. Since the M1841’s were intended to “match” the M1855’s (all but first production of the M1855 were bright), I am recommending them be “struck bright” (until evidence comes to light contradicting that).

    Minimum needed for a Q & E alteration:

    1. Do the “standard de-farb” work.

    2.. Add a long range sight added by filing the rear sight dovetail from ¼ to ½ inch, and adding a Colt-Root Model 1855 Percussion Repeating Rifle rear sight (available from a number of sources, such as S & S Firearms and Lodgewood.)

    3. Add a “bayonet adapter” ring, or detached spline, to the muzzle (available from Dixie Guns Works).

    Of course, adding the “finer details’ such as the name on the lockplate, U.S. barrel inspection, proof, and acceptance (V, P Eaglehead) stamps; or the stock inspectors stamp, etc., etc., all take things closer to “an original.”

    Note: Depending upon one’s skill-set and tools, one can pay a CW gunsmith to take care of these things for you.

    Second type:

    1. Rebored to .58 with seven lands and grooves, later three.
    2. Long range sight added by expanding the rear sight dovetail from ¼ to ½ inch, and adding a Colt-Root Model 1855 Percussion Repeating Rifle rear sight.
    3. An “M1855 Rifle” style but uniquely "Colt" “very long bar” bayonet lug/rail was riveted in place on the right side of the muzzle with two rivets.

    No. 3 makes this version tricky. I have not yet seen or handled an original to know the nature of the two “rivets.” However, the Colt lug's rail or “bar” is extremely long, and short of having an original to take to a machinist to copy… one can have a M1855 Rifle bayonet lug (long, but not that long) brazed in place and the rivets simulated or ignored. Someone suggested that a “Zouave” (M1863 Muzzleloading Percussion Contract Rifle) barrel with its lug in place can be used. I do not know if the two are interchangeable (no Zouaves on hand here). So, the M1855 lug brazed or soldered on, might be best… (or the least of three evils).

    Next time: Arsenal Alterations

    Curt-Heinrich Schmidt
    Last edited by Curt Schmidt; 07-04-2004, 05:13 PM.
    Curt Schmidt
    In gleichem Schritt und Tritt, Curt Schmidt

    -Hard and sharp as flint...secret, and self-contained, and solitary as an oyster.
    -Haplogroup R1b M343 (Subclade R1b1a2 M269)
    -Pointless Folksy Wisdom Mess, Oblio Lodge #1
    -Vastly Ignorant
    -Often incorrect, technically, historically, factually.

  • #2
    Re: M1841 Rifle .58 and .54 Alterations, Pt 1

    Great information Curt!

    One thing to consider if adding the bayonet clamp. I have had several from Dixie gun and they are pure junk!. Looks like the lug was stick welded to the clamp by a blind man using a car battery. They seperate very easily when a bayonet is attached. The clamping screw is also very poor qualitity and strips when tightening the clamp on the barrel.

    If Dixie is still offering the M-1855 sabre bayonets also beware. They are very bulky and much heavier than an original.

    For my money the 2nd alteration looks to be the easier with the long bar bayonet stud if one can obtain the stud.
    Jim Mayo
    Portsmouth Rifles, Company G, 9th Va. Inf.

    CW Show and Tell Site
    http://www.angelfire.com/ma4/j_mayo/index.html

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: M1841 Rifle .58 and .54 Alterations, Pt 1

      Hallo Kamerad!

      Danke for the Dixie Gun Works update.
      I am at a major disadvantage because my CW gunbuilding daze ran 1980 through 1988 when I was but a kid- so the "current market and state affairs"
      is not well known to me. :-(
      Of my parts suppliers at that time, one died, one retired, and I lost contact with two. That currently leaves only S&S Firearms and Bill Osborne/Lodgewood, and a 15 year knowledge gap.
      I should order up all of these parts and services, but at the rate I am paid or reimbursed here, it might be a $$$ losing proposition. ;-)

      I appreciate the input. Thanks!

      Curt-Heinrich Schmidt
      Curt Schmidt
      In gleichem Schritt und Tritt, Curt Schmidt

      -Hard and sharp as flint...secret, and self-contained, and solitary as an oyster.
      -Haplogroup R1b M343 (Subclade R1b1a2 M269)
      -Pointless Folksy Wisdom Mess, Oblio Lodge #1
      -Vastly Ignorant
      -Often incorrect, technically, historically, factually.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: M1841 Rifle .58 and .54 Alterations, Pt 1

        All,

        I would also not hesitate to recommend:

        Nick Brevoort (Gator Den)
        Cincinnati, Ohio, 45230
        513-232-7045

        He carries a goodly amount of Rich Cross parts, along with other and sundry.....

        Mark Latham
        Mark Latham

        "Mon centre cède, impossible de me mouvoir, situation excellente, j'attaque." ~Ferdinand Foch

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: M1841 Rifle .58 and .54 Alterations, Pt 1

          Hallo Kameraden!

          "and I lost contact with two"

          Danke, Herr Mark! Nick being one of the two!!

          Curt-Heinrich Schmidt
          Curt Schmidt
          In gleichem Schritt und Tritt, Curt Schmidt

          -Hard and sharp as flint...secret, and self-contained, and solitary as an oyster.
          -Haplogroup R1b M343 (Subclade R1b1a2 M269)
          -Pointless Folksy Wisdom Mess, Oblio Lodge #1
          -Vastly Ignorant
          -Often incorrect, technically, historically, factually.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: M1841 Rifle .58 and .54 Alterations, Pt 1

            Comrade Schmidt,

            Forgive my ignorance in this matter, but is there a major difference between the Zouave barrel and the M1841 barrel? Length?, breech?, etc?
            The only reason I ask is that it would seem to me to be easier to swap a Zouave barrel for a M1841 barrel and thus obtain the .58 bore and a bayonet lug at the same time. Then again, if the differences are major, then forget I asked:)
            I appreciate your patience with me. I know much about many things, but am woefully lacking in some of the finer points of weapon authenticity. Fortunately, at least I am cognizant of what I DON'T know about the subject.
            Thanks again, and I remain, sir,
            respectfully,
            Tim Kindred
            Medical Mess
            Solar Star Lodge #14
            Bath, Maine

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: M1841 Rifle .58 and .54 Alterations, Pt 1

              Hallo Kamerad!

              "but is there a major difference between the Zouave barrel and the M1841 barrel? Length?, breech?, etc?
              The only reason I ask is that it would seem to me to be easier to swap a Zouave barrel for a M1841 barrel and thus obtain the .58 bore and a bayonet lug at the same time."

              ""Someone suggested that a “Zouave” (M1863 Muzzleloading Percussion Contract Rifle) barrel with its lug in place can be used. I do not know if the two are interchangeable (no Zouaves on hand here). ."

              Sorry, I do not know as I know of no one with a "Zouave" for me to examine or swap barrels and report. (Hint, hint! Anyone with a current generation "Zouave" and "Mississippi" who could compare and contrast, and then report to the Forum?)

              The "Zouave" being the first reproduction CW "longarm," dates back to the 1950's. As a result it has been made, remade, reremade, copied, recopied, rerecopied, ad nauseum by numerous companies. The Italians, beginning with Antonio Zoli (I think), have served as exporters to numerous American importers at one time or another- including Sears and Roebuck!

              It was said, that initially the Italian Brescia Valley maker(s) had ONLY one production set up- and used it to make the same basic 33 inch .58 barrels for the "Zouave" and "Mississippi," and then M1803 Harper's Ferry Rifle, and "Zouave mutant" of the M1855 Pistol Carbine- and just modifying the outsides as called for.
              But in the years since, makers and companies have come and gone. The M1841's I see now are themsevles poor copies of the Zoli and Navy Arms versions sold in the 1970's. And, on the other extreme, for a few years in the 1980's there was a commercial "custom" grade version offered with real black walnut and extra attention to QC, fit and finish, etc, etc- for the extra price.

              I would like to recommend the "expedient" of someone picking up a Zouave barrel complete with a late M1855 style rear sight AND barrel lug ready to go-just "de-farb" the stampings and drop it in- rather than buying the sights and lug, and paying a gunsmith to make the alterations. BUT, I just do not know if it can be done, and do not want to buy a "Zouave" to find out. ;-)
              I thought I had access to a Zoli Zouave this weekend, but my pard has sold it a few months ago. At any rate, being a 1950's piece any resemblance to a current generation "Zouave" repro may have made it worthless anyways.
              My brother-in-law has an early 1980's one, but I see him about once a year, and he lives too far away to drive for a peek and test fit. ;-)

              Curt-Heinrich Schmidt
              Last edited by Curt Schmidt; 07-04-2004, 05:12 PM.
              Curt Schmidt
              In gleichem Schritt und Tritt, Curt Schmidt

              -Hard and sharp as flint...secret, and self-contained, and solitary as an oyster.
              -Haplogroup R1b M343 (Subclade R1b1a2 M269)
              -Pointless Folksy Wisdom Mess, Oblio Lodge #1
              -Vastly Ignorant
              -Often incorrect, technically, historically, factually.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: M1841 Rifle .58 and .54 Alterations, Pt 1

                Curt,

                Great stuff! At the risk of slapping this url in the wrong spot, here's a little 1841 parts info from The Rifle Shoppe, since I hadn't seen it mentioned yet:

                http://www.therifleshoppe.com/(512).htm

                Charles Heath
                Last edited by Charles Heath; 07-06-2004, 02:14 PM. Reason: Me the Luddite attempting active hyperlink
                [B]Charles Heath[/B]
                [EMAIL="heath9999@aol.com"]heath9999@aol.com[/EMAIL]

                [URL="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Spanglers_Spring_Living_History/"]12 - 14 Jun 09 Hoosiers at Gettysburg[/URL]

                [EMAIL="heath9999@aol.com"]17-19 Jul 09 Mumford/GCV Carpe Eventum [/EMAIL]

                [EMAIL="beatlefans1@verizon.net"]31 Jul - 2 Aug 09 Texans at Gettysburg [/EMAIL]

                [EMAIL="JDO@npmhu.org"] 11-13 Sep 09 Fortress Monroe [/EMAIL]

                [URL="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Elmira_Death_March/?yguid=25647636"]2-4 Oct 09 Death March XI - Corduroy[/URL]

                [EMAIL="oldsoldier51@yahoo.com"] G'burg Memorial March [/EMAIL]

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: M1841 Rifle .58 and .54 Alterations, Pt 1

                  Hallo Herr Charles!

                  THE RIFLE SHOPPE is an excellent source of parts, but I was hesitant to "promote" them because:

                  1. their inventory and supply is often low, which causes months to years waits, and
                  2. while original parts are often used to illustrate their catalog, what one receives are parts right "out of the mold" that require more "advanced gunsmithing" skills and tools to turn into viable choices for most. (as now explained at the bottom of the web site)

                  Ah, a fellow Luddite!
                  Captain Ned would be proud!!

                  Curt-Heinrich Schmidt
                  Curt Schmidt
                  In gleichem Schritt und Tritt, Curt Schmidt

                  -Hard and sharp as flint...secret, and self-contained, and solitary as an oyster.
                  -Haplogroup R1b M343 (Subclade R1b1a2 M269)
                  -Pointless Folksy Wisdom Mess, Oblio Lodge #1
                  -Vastly Ignorant
                  -Often incorrect, technically, historically, factually.

                  Comment

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