Tweet
Hallo Kameraden!
M1841 Rifle Arsenal Alterations.
HISTORY:
On July 5, 1855 Secretary of War Jefferson Davis ordered that the calibre of .58 be adopted along with the (combustible) Minie cartridge. This order also adopted the new M1855 Rifle to replace the M1841 Rifle. It was also decided to “upgrade” the M1841’s in inventory with sabre bayonets and long range rear sights to match the new M1855 rifles. In 1859, it was decided to modify the M1841 rifles to take a angular socket bayonet instead of the sabre or sword bayonet (these being M1855 .58 bayonets as well as M1842 .69 bayonets).
Between 1855 and 1859, Harper’s Ferry Armory “upgraded” 8,879 of the 25,296 made there, as well as made 1,646 Snell Patent bayonets, and 10,286 sabre bayonets. Late in 1859, the decision was made to use up stores of the old M1842 socket bayonets, as well as current production of M1855 socket bayonets.
In addition to reboring to .58, “long range” rear sights and bayonets were added.
ARSENAL ALTERATIONS:
Bayonets:
1. First type: The Snell Patent sabre bayonet. The Snell bayonet had a self-contained mounting ring on the back of its hilt, a transverse locking screw, and a “key” in the cross guard that locked the bayonet in place. It was mounted on the barrel in two ½ inch milled vertical (at right angles to each other) slots near the muzzle. HF made 1,646 in 1855.
2. Second type: The more common sabre bayonet with lug. To accomplish this, the stock was shortened slightly, the large upper double-looped band was replaced with a shorter version, and a bayonet mounting lug was brazed to the right side of the barrel near the muzzle (I have seen three types: a no rail “Zouave” style, and an M1855 Rifle style with short no, as well as medium, and long llength rails or supports.) Several types of sabre bayonets were used, including the M1855 Rifle sabre bayonet and contractor produced “Mississippi” sabre bayonets. Some 6,000 of these bayonets and clamping rings (splines) are believed to have been made and used at HF.
3. Third type: The M1842 angular socket bayonet for the.69 M1842 Percussion Musket.
To mount the M1842 bayonet, the muzzle end of the barrel was lathe-turned down to accommodate the bayonet socket. And, a rectangular or square “stud” was brazed on the barrel bottom to mount the bayonet (Remember the M1842 has its stud in the bottom, so the bayonet is designed to be on the correct side of the gun. To get it right on the M1841, the stud has to go on the bottom. Some examples are known where the inside diameter of the M1842’s bayonet socket was enlarged to fit OVER the M1841 barrel WITHOUT it being turned down.
4. Fourth type: The M1855 socket bayonet for the.58 M1855 Rifle-Musket. To mount the M1855 bayonet, the muzzle end of the barrel was lathe-turned down to accommodate the bayonet socket. And, a rectangular combination front sight and bayonet “stud” was brazed on the barrel top (and the brass front side cut off and filed flush with the barrel.
Rear Sights:
Since the July 5, 1855 order specified increasing the calibre, equipping these rifles with sabre bayonets, and long range rear sights, there is considerable variation found. I am of the opinion, that the M1855 long range rear sights used correspond to the “style” then in use or just previously in use for the M1855 Rifles at HF at the time. When the M1841 was altered determined which style of rear sight it received- but I cannot determine if they were using the current style or simply using up and recycling the previous or obsolete style. .
1. First type: The “early” (1857-1858) M1855 Rifle long range rear sight graduated to 900 yards was added, using the dovetail for the M1841’s simple “block” rear sight and drilling and tapping a hole for the sight screw into the barrel. (This sight is sometimes referred to as the “low roller coaster” for its profile.)
2. Second type: The long range rear sight used on the “rifled and sighted” alterations on the M1842 musket was added, using the dovetail for the M1841’s simple “block” rear sight and drilling and tapping a hole for the sight screw into the barrel. (This sight is sometimes referred to as the “high roller coaster” for its profile.)
3. Third type: The “late” (late 1858-1861) M1855 Rifle short range rear sight graduated to 500 yards was added, using the dovetail for the M1841’s simple “block” rear sight and drilling and tapping a hole for the sight screw into the barrel. This was also considered a “long range” rear sight. The sight is similar to the M1855 Rifle-musket sight but 1/10 of inch shorter. It is essentially the same sight used on the M1863 Remington Contract Rifle (Zouave). And it was modified for the M1861 by eliminating the rear base step and beefing up the ears around the leaf screw.
4. Fourth type: The “late” (late 1858-1861) M1855 Rifle short range rear sight graduated to 500 yards was added, using the dovetail for the M1841’s simple “block” rear sight and drilling and tapping a hole for the sight screw into the barrel. But, the bores remained unaltered at .54.
5. Variant types: War time emergencies saw variations as well as experimentation such as the fold-down Benton rear sight.
Ramrod:
On the .58 alterations, the M1841 brass tipped trumpet shaped ramrod was usually always replaced by an all steel one more in line with pushing a Minie than a round ball. But, brass-tipped ones are sometimes found which raises questions as to it being proper, or just that the all-steel one was lost and replaced during the War or in 1961 with an earlier version?
Minimum needed for a Q & E alteration:
1. Do the “standard de-farb” work.
2.. Add a long range or short range rear sight. (IMHO, the very best, and “ A” grade are Rich Cross’ available from a number of sources, such as S & S Firearms and Lodgewood. A “Zouave“ sight would make a C- or D grade substitute, but is cheapest). Drilling and tapping can be tricky so as NOT to drill all the way through into the barrel interior!!!!!! Depending upon one’s skill-set, drills, drill-stops, taps, and tools- this may be a job for a gunsmith. One gunmaker I know used to refuse to drill and tap for the sight screw. Instead he solders the sight in place, cuts off the threads from the screw, and epoxies the screw head in place.
3. Cut off the M1841’s brass front sight.
4. For socket bayonet versions, turn down the muzzle until the M1842 or M1855 socket bayonet fits. Depending upon one’s skill-set, and tools- this may be a job for a gunsmith
5. Braze an M1855 Rifle or M1855 Rifle-Musket front sight to the proper location on the barrel at the muzzle. Depending upon one’s skill-set, and tools- this may be a job for a gunsmith. Some will soft-solder, some silver solder. Some “tige” (?) or “arc weld” (?) weld. N-SSA “types” balk at the higher temps feeling it may warp the barrel and ruin competitive accuracy. Others feel that sold solder does not hold well, especially when fixing and unfixing bayonets and especially in cold weather! (I would agree, having “popped” an Enfield as well as M1842 front sight in such a way…) This can be tricky as the original, Italian, Indian, and Pakistani bayonets are all slightly differently “slotted.”
6. For sabre bayonet versions, braze an M1855 Rifle, or even “Zouave” barrel lug to the proper location on the barrel at the muzzle. Depending upon one’s skill-set, and tools- this may be a job for a gunsmith. Some will soft-solder, some silver-solder. Some “tige” (?) or arc weld (?) weld.
N-SSA “types” balk at the higher temps feeling it may warp the barrel and ruin competitive accuracy. Others feel that soft solder does not hold well, especially when fixing and unfixing bayonets and especially in cold weather! This can be tricky as the original, Italian, Indian, and Pakistani bayonets are all slightly differently “lugged.”
7. For sabre bayonet versions, shorten the stock and fit the “short” barrel band to replace the large or “long” double-looped front band. This is NOT REQUIRED for the socket bayonet versions. (These are available at S & S Firearms, The Rifle Shoppe, but I do not know about Lodgewood [likely])
8. Some filing, fitting, and polishing of the front sight and lug or stud may be required to get the bayonet to mount and dismount properly.
9. Replace the M1841 .54 round ball brass-tipped ramrod with an M1841 “Minie” ball all steel ramrod.
10. Of course, adding the “finer details’ such as the HF or contractor name on the lockplate, U.S. barrel inspection, proof, and acceptance (V, P Eaglehead) stamps; or the stock inspectors stamp, etc., etc., all take things closer to “an original.” Harper’s Ferry alterations often carried two and even three inspectors’ stock stamps reflecting men and stamp styles between 1846 and 1861.
Note: The location of the front sight was 31.55 inches, measured from the face of the breech of the barrel to the REAR of the front sight base. With a long range sight, measuring from the rear of the upright leaf to the rear of the sight base, it was 28.375 inches. With a short range rear sight, measuring from the rear of the upright leaf to the rear of the sight base, it was 28.50 inches. HOWEVER, the nature of Italian reproductions and the nature of original and reproduction bayonets screws all of that up. But it will give a rough indication of where to look for placement. (Holding and measuring originals is the best way to go here…but even still, repro M1841‘s are different!)
NOTE: Reproduction sabre bayonets are, IMHO, junk or trash: choose wisely, avoid the M1855 Saber bayonet repro's...and all of the Pakistani and Indian "bottom end" and "low end" offerings!
Next: Maybe Palmetto manufactured M1841’s
Next next” M1841 tools
Curt-Heinrich Schmidt
Probably Giving Too Many Vendors Too Many Ideas Here Mess
M1841 Rifle Arsenal Alterations.
HISTORY:
On July 5, 1855 Secretary of War Jefferson Davis ordered that the calibre of .58 be adopted along with the (combustible) Minie cartridge. This order also adopted the new M1855 Rifle to replace the M1841 Rifle. It was also decided to “upgrade” the M1841’s in inventory with sabre bayonets and long range rear sights to match the new M1855 rifles. In 1859, it was decided to modify the M1841 rifles to take a angular socket bayonet instead of the sabre or sword bayonet (these being M1855 .58 bayonets as well as M1842 .69 bayonets).
Between 1855 and 1859, Harper’s Ferry Armory “upgraded” 8,879 of the 25,296 made there, as well as made 1,646 Snell Patent bayonets, and 10,286 sabre bayonets. Late in 1859, the decision was made to use up stores of the old M1842 socket bayonets, as well as current production of M1855 socket bayonets.
In addition to reboring to .58, “long range” rear sights and bayonets were added.
ARSENAL ALTERATIONS:
Bayonets:
1. First type: The Snell Patent sabre bayonet. The Snell bayonet had a self-contained mounting ring on the back of its hilt, a transverse locking screw, and a “key” in the cross guard that locked the bayonet in place. It was mounted on the barrel in two ½ inch milled vertical (at right angles to each other) slots near the muzzle. HF made 1,646 in 1855.
2. Second type: The more common sabre bayonet with lug. To accomplish this, the stock was shortened slightly, the large upper double-looped band was replaced with a shorter version, and a bayonet mounting lug was brazed to the right side of the barrel near the muzzle (I have seen three types: a no rail “Zouave” style, and an M1855 Rifle style with short no, as well as medium, and long llength rails or supports.) Several types of sabre bayonets were used, including the M1855 Rifle sabre bayonet and contractor produced “Mississippi” sabre bayonets. Some 6,000 of these bayonets and clamping rings (splines) are believed to have been made and used at HF.
3. Third type: The M1842 angular socket bayonet for the.69 M1842 Percussion Musket.
To mount the M1842 bayonet, the muzzle end of the barrel was lathe-turned down to accommodate the bayonet socket. And, a rectangular or square “stud” was brazed on the barrel bottom to mount the bayonet (Remember the M1842 has its stud in the bottom, so the bayonet is designed to be on the correct side of the gun. To get it right on the M1841, the stud has to go on the bottom. Some examples are known where the inside diameter of the M1842’s bayonet socket was enlarged to fit OVER the M1841 barrel WITHOUT it being turned down.
4. Fourth type: The M1855 socket bayonet for the.58 M1855 Rifle-Musket. To mount the M1855 bayonet, the muzzle end of the barrel was lathe-turned down to accommodate the bayonet socket. And, a rectangular combination front sight and bayonet “stud” was brazed on the barrel top (and the brass front side cut off and filed flush with the barrel.
Rear Sights:
Since the July 5, 1855 order specified increasing the calibre, equipping these rifles with sabre bayonets, and long range rear sights, there is considerable variation found. I am of the opinion, that the M1855 long range rear sights used correspond to the “style” then in use or just previously in use for the M1855 Rifles at HF at the time. When the M1841 was altered determined which style of rear sight it received- but I cannot determine if they were using the current style or simply using up and recycling the previous or obsolete style. .
1. First type: The “early” (1857-1858) M1855 Rifle long range rear sight graduated to 900 yards was added, using the dovetail for the M1841’s simple “block” rear sight and drilling and tapping a hole for the sight screw into the barrel. (This sight is sometimes referred to as the “low roller coaster” for its profile.)
2. Second type: The long range rear sight used on the “rifled and sighted” alterations on the M1842 musket was added, using the dovetail for the M1841’s simple “block” rear sight and drilling and tapping a hole for the sight screw into the barrel. (This sight is sometimes referred to as the “high roller coaster” for its profile.)
3. Third type: The “late” (late 1858-1861) M1855 Rifle short range rear sight graduated to 500 yards was added, using the dovetail for the M1841’s simple “block” rear sight and drilling and tapping a hole for the sight screw into the barrel. This was also considered a “long range” rear sight. The sight is similar to the M1855 Rifle-musket sight but 1/10 of inch shorter. It is essentially the same sight used on the M1863 Remington Contract Rifle (Zouave). And it was modified for the M1861 by eliminating the rear base step and beefing up the ears around the leaf screw.
4. Fourth type: The “late” (late 1858-1861) M1855 Rifle short range rear sight graduated to 500 yards was added, using the dovetail for the M1841’s simple “block” rear sight and drilling and tapping a hole for the sight screw into the barrel. But, the bores remained unaltered at .54.
5. Variant types: War time emergencies saw variations as well as experimentation such as the fold-down Benton rear sight.
Ramrod:
On the .58 alterations, the M1841 brass tipped trumpet shaped ramrod was usually always replaced by an all steel one more in line with pushing a Minie than a round ball. But, brass-tipped ones are sometimes found which raises questions as to it being proper, or just that the all-steel one was lost and replaced during the War or in 1961 with an earlier version?
Minimum needed for a Q & E alteration:
1. Do the “standard de-farb” work.
2.. Add a long range or short range rear sight. (IMHO, the very best, and “ A” grade are Rich Cross’ available from a number of sources, such as S & S Firearms and Lodgewood. A “Zouave“ sight would make a C- or D grade substitute, but is cheapest). Drilling and tapping can be tricky so as NOT to drill all the way through into the barrel interior!!!!!! Depending upon one’s skill-set, drills, drill-stops, taps, and tools- this may be a job for a gunsmith. One gunmaker I know used to refuse to drill and tap for the sight screw. Instead he solders the sight in place, cuts off the threads from the screw, and epoxies the screw head in place.
3. Cut off the M1841’s brass front sight.
4. For socket bayonet versions, turn down the muzzle until the M1842 or M1855 socket bayonet fits. Depending upon one’s skill-set, and tools- this may be a job for a gunsmith
5. Braze an M1855 Rifle or M1855 Rifle-Musket front sight to the proper location on the barrel at the muzzle. Depending upon one’s skill-set, and tools- this may be a job for a gunsmith. Some will soft-solder, some silver solder. Some “tige” (?) or “arc weld” (?) weld. N-SSA “types” balk at the higher temps feeling it may warp the barrel and ruin competitive accuracy. Others feel that sold solder does not hold well, especially when fixing and unfixing bayonets and especially in cold weather! (I would agree, having “popped” an Enfield as well as M1842 front sight in such a way…) This can be tricky as the original, Italian, Indian, and Pakistani bayonets are all slightly differently “slotted.”
6. For sabre bayonet versions, braze an M1855 Rifle, or even “Zouave” barrel lug to the proper location on the barrel at the muzzle. Depending upon one’s skill-set, and tools- this may be a job for a gunsmith. Some will soft-solder, some silver-solder. Some “tige” (?) or arc weld (?) weld.
N-SSA “types” balk at the higher temps feeling it may warp the barrel and ruin competitive accuracy. Others feel that soft solder does not hold well, especially when fixing and unfixing bayonets and especially in cold weather! This can be tricky as the original, Italian, Indian, and Pakistani bayonets are all slightly differently “lugged.”
7. For sabre bayonet versions, shorten the stock and fit the “short” barrel band to replace the large or “long” double-looped front band. This is NOT REQUIRED for the socket bayonet versions. (These are available at S & S Firearms, The Rifle Shoppe, but I do not know about Lodgewood [likely])
8. Some filing, fitting, and polishing of the front sight and lug or stud may be required to get the bayonet to mount and dismount properly.
9. Replace the M1841 .54 round ball brass-tipped ramrod with an M1841 “Minie” ball all steel ramrod.
10. Of course, adding the “finer details’ such as the HF or contractor name on the lockplate, U.S. barrel inspection, proof, and acceptance (V, P Eaglehead) stamps; or the stock inspectors stamp, etc., etc., all take things closer to “an original.” Harper’s Ferry alterations often carried two and even three inspectors’ stock stamps reflecting men and stamp styles between 1846 and 1861.
Note: The location of the front sight was 31.55 inches, measured from the face of the breech of the barrel to the REAR of the front sight base. With a long range sight, measuring from the rear of the upright leaf to the rear of the sight base, it was 28.375 inches. With a short range rear sight, measuring from the rear of the upright leaf to the rear of the sight base, it was 28.50 inches. HOWEVER, the nature of Italian reproductions and the nature of original and reproduction bayonets screws all of that up. But it will give a rough indication of where to look for placement. (Holding and measuring originals is the best way to go here…but even still, repro M1841‘s are different!)
NOTE: Reproduction sabre bayonets are, IMHO, junk or trash: choose wisely, avoid the M1855 Saber bayonet repro's...and all of the Pakistani and Indian "bottom end" and "low end" offerings!
Next: Maybe Palmetto manufactured M1841’s
Next next” M1841 tools
Curt-Heinrich Schmidt
Probably Giving Too Many Vendors Too Many Ideas Here Mess