Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Bugler Ranks

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Bugler Ranks

    I am a new bugler in my Cavalry unit. How does the ranking work? I was told that if, basically, If you knew 1/4 of the calls, you were upgraded to Cpl. 3/4 of the calls, upgraded to Sgt. and all the calls, SgtMaj, and considered "Chief Bugler" We have one Sgt Major in our area, Infintry. And, when promoted to any rank, is it recognised among other units? of "just for looks " as some people have told me? Thanks in advance..

  • #2
    Re: Bugler Ranks

    In short, during the war there were two requirements of the bugler, know how to play the bugle and know the calls, after all the lives of your entire unit may depend on it. Never heard this stuff about ranks before. Here's a thread you may find of interest: http://www.authentic-campaigner.com/...ghlight=bugler
    Robert Collett
    8th FL / 13th IN
    Armory Guards
    WIG

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Bugler Ranks

      Please save yourself alot of trouble and read the link provided by Mr. Collett, as whoever gave you that "information" about rank structure for buglers did you a grave disservice.
      Ross L. Lamoreaux
      rlamoreaux@tampabayhistorycenter.org


      "...and if profanity was included in the course of study at West Point, I am sure that the Army of the Cumberland had their share of the prize scholars in this branch." - B.F. Scribner, 38th Indiana Vol Inf

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Bugler Ranks

        Let me ask a question of you, does this supposed rank structure make any sense to you? What good is a company bugler, in a functioning combat cavalry unit that only knows 1/4 or 1/2 of the calls? I'll tell you, he is of darn little use.
        Sometimes a bit of common sense goes a LONG way.

        Dave Myrick

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Bugler Ranks

          Like I said, Im NEW I asked because, it makes sense that, working under the chief bugler and learning a new craft, that ones progress would be recognised by how well he knew/recognized/played his bugle. By giving them rank (more pay) as they progressed. I dont apprecieate people barking at me for asking a question.. last I checked the name of this forum was "Camp of Instruction" meaning new people. The other thread mentioned does not help me very much. As for rank, who would award it? and, was it recognised to all? or just musicans?

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Bugler Ranks

            Check out the link below which show you the Table of Pay from the 1861 U.S. Army Regulations. I hope this answer your questions.


            http://www.bradyssharpshooters.org/b...ble_of_Pay.htm
            [FONT=Courier New]Mark Maranto[/FONT]

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Bugler Ranks

              Dear Mike, nobody is trying to bark at you for asking a question, quite the contrary, we are trying to assist you in your endeavor to learn (as we all are on this forum). To answer your question, the only rank a bugler would hold was musician or bugler. Private, corporal, sergeant , etc were for the line units, musicians were under the command of the drum major or principal musician (also a rank). Buglers served at the company level, but commanded by the principal musician at the regimental level. Please read further in the above link and you'll be able to get a glimpse of the structure.
              Ross L. Lamoreaux
              rlamoreaux@tampabayhistorycenter.org


              "...and if profanity was included in the course of study at West Point, I am sure that the Army of the Cumberland had their share of the prize scholars in this branch." - B.F. Scribner, 38th Indiana Vol Inf

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Bugler Ranks

                Mike - thanks for coming to the forum and asking the question. Frankly, I would be concerned that having been given that completely made up information, your unit might have other such non-period "advice." It would not be the first time that a reenactment unit based rank on something similar... Recommend you go back to your unit and always ask for documentation on anything and everything. I would be interested in the answer on this particular subject. Never accept:

                1. That is what we have always done...

                2. I read it somewhere...

                3. Because I said so...

                And if the above are the normal answers to your questions...well, we need more buglers in our authentic units of all branches!
                Soli Deo Gloria
                Doug Cooper

                "The past is never dead. It's not even past." William Faulkner

                Please support the CWT at www.civilwar.org

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Bugler Ranks

                  Mike,

                  No one was trying to bark at you nor do I think the thread I suggested held no valuable information for you (I see you even asked some questions over there as well which I tried to answer). Yes this is the camp of instruction which is probably why you didn't get barked at. What we tried to do was lead you to some information that would help you with your research towards finding the answer you wanted. Although this is the camp of instruction, the forum is designed for reenactors who are somewhat experienced in research, rarely will someone just come out and give you the answer. It's the old teach a man to fish or give him a fish scenario. If you were to look upon this forum as a college situation, this folder would be the early stages of your graduate degree where you aided along but not necessarily given all the information. The one thing you should ever do is trust anyone on their information unless they can document it. This is how so many reenactorisms get started and ingrained, someone tells you how to do something wrong and it is retaught and retaught over and over again until the point it becomes "common practice" although it is wrong. I see way too much incorrect information being presented as accurate which is why I always try to guide someone to the information without necessarily giving the answer. For one thing often I do not know the answer but I might know where that person might find it or at least get headed in the right direction. There was a plethora of information in the other thread and above is a link to the 1861 regs that lists the pay for all the positions which should help figure out the puzzle.

                  Also just like the army today a bugler would go through training before hitting the field to learn all the calls. If someone did not learn all the calls by the end of their training period they would probably get handed a musket and trained as an infantryman or a cavalryman (or whatever their branch happened to be). You wouldn't send out a rifleman and try to teach him load in nine times or how to execute a wheel or by company into line under fire would you? You also wouldn't have much use for a bugler that wasn't familiar with every call in the book either. Once they hit the field a bugler had to know all the calls. If the principle bugler called left wheel or by company into line and the company bugler did not know the call he might get his eentire company wiped out

                  Trust me, had this been posted anywhere but the camp of instruction folder you would have probably been bombarded with the "try the search function" type responses, at least here you are getting some leads gratis. This really is reenactor grad school. people here are not a bunch of hateful so and so's, but the forum is a bit different than many of the others out there (I know, I mod one of them and we have different expectations and rules).
                  Last edited by toptimlrd; 07-23-2007, 11:03 PM.
                  Robert Collett
                  8th FL / 13th IN
                  Armory Guards
                  WIG

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Bugler Ranks

                    Mike,

                    Despite what you may see at yuk-fest reenactments in western New York State, most buglers in the Civil War were privates. Don't take what you see the locals doing as what was done in the CIvil War. Not all buglers were principal musicians, by a long shot.

                    And just who did a bugler need to give orders to? His purpose was to stick near the battalion commander and relay his orders on his horn, and that's pretty much it. Rank on this matter need not, and should not, be over-thought.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Bugler Ranks

                      Here's two extremes of the spectrum: Image #1, Grant's Cavalry Escort, March, 1865.

                      Image #2, from a group of NCO's of the 13th NY Cavalry, July, 1865. Hubba-WHA?!
                      Attached Files
                      Marc A. Hermann
                      Liberty Rifles.
                      MOLLUS, New York Commandery.
                      Oliver Tilden Camp No 26, SUVCW.


                      In honor of Sgt. William H. Forrest, Co. K, 114th PA Vol. Infantry. Pvt. Emanuel Hermann, 45th PA Militia. Lt. George W. Hopkins & Capt. William K. Hopkins, Co. E, 7th PA Reserves. Pvt. Joseph A. Weckerly, 72nd PA Vol. Infantry (WIA June 29, 1862, d. March 23, 1866.) Pvt. Thomas Will, 21st PA Vol. Cavalry (WIA June 18, 1864, d. July 31, 1864.)

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Bugler Ranks

                        All,


                        Are those two Buglers on the left of the first image wearing paper collars?

                        They sure look sharp,
                        Last edited by hendrickms24; 07-24-2007, 03:12 PM. Reason: typo
                        [FONT=Courier New]Mark Maranto[/FONT]

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Bugler Ranks

                          Grant preferred Dandy's blowing horns for him.


                          Originally posted by hendrickms24 View Post
                          All,


                          Are those two Buglers on the left of the first image wearing paper collars?

                          They sure look sharp,
                          2

                          Brett "Homer" Keen
                          Chicago
                          [I]"Excessively spirited in the pranks and mischief of the soldier"[/I]

                          OEF 03-04 [I]Truth Through Exploitation[/I]

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Bugler Ranks

                            Originally posted by FranklinGuardsNYSM View Post
                            Here's two extremes of the spectrum: Image #1, Grant's Cavalry Escort, March, 1865.

                            Image #2, from a group of NCO's of the 13th NY Cavalry, July, 1865. Hubba-WHA?!
                            Looking at the solo image, it looks like he has an infantry bugle inside his chevrons, I thought that was well post war.
                            Robert Collett
                            8th FL / 13th IN
                            Armory Guards
                            WIG

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Bugler Ranks

                              Two more, these guys belonging to the 1st U.S. Cavalry, photographed at Brandy Station in 1864. No chevrons, but note the unique trouser striping. Looks like two strips of yellow tape.

                              Also of note is that the guys in this unit are wearing the mounted services jacket with the different style of cuff, viz. the tape rises in curved fashion above the cuff buttons, rather than coming to a peak at the center of the top sleeve.
                              Attached Files
                              Marc A. Hermann
                              Liberty Rifles.
                              MOLLUS, New York Commandery.
                              Oliver Tilden Camp No 26, SUVCW.


                              In honor of Sgt. William H. Forrest, Co. K, 114th PA Vol. Infantry. Pvt. Emanuel Hermann, 45th PA Militia. Lt. George W. Hopkins & Capt. William K. Hopkins, Co. E, 7th PA Reserves. Pvt. Joseph A. Weckerly, 72nd PA Vol. Infantry (WIA June 29, 1862, d. March 23, 1866.) Pvt. Thomas Will, 21st PA Vol. Cavalry (WIA June 18, 1864, d. July 31, 1864.)

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X