Battlefield Pickups

[1stMaine]

Re: Battlefield Pickups

Comrades,
Quote:
"As Vicksburg 31,600 prisoners were surrendered, together with about 60,000 muskets and a large amount of ammunition. Up to this time our troops at the West had been limited to the old U.S. flintlock muskets changed into percussion... The enemy had generally new arms which had run the blockade and were of uniform caliber. After the surrender I authorized all colonels whose regiments were armed with inferior muskets, to place them in the stack of captured arms and replace them with the latter. A large number of arms turned in to the Ordance Department as captured, were thus arms that had really been used by the Union army in the capture of Vicksburg."

Think about the ramifications of that statement for a minute. This is the sort of thing that gives rise to false assumptions amongst historians. How many fellows have assumed that the Confederates captured at Vicksburg were carrying converted flintlocks because that's what was turned in as "captured" weapons? Unless they were privvy to Grant's stement, they would have to go by what the record says, and that would be wrong. It's true that several thousand "old" pattern muskets were turned in, and it's true that several thousand Confederates were captured at Vicksburg, but it's NOT true that those same Johnnies were carrying those old weapons.....
It's akin to the notion that bayonets were never used in melee in the CW because there were fewer than 1000 bayonet wounds treated in Federal hospitals.
What I'm getting at is that this little gem of a revelation from Grant now makes us think twice about not only what is being reported in the official accounts, but the context in which it is reported.
respects,

[RelicRoomGuy]

Re: Battlefield Pickups

Interesting stuff!

Our museum collection includes a fine pair of doeskin gloves which Richard S. Desportes, on S.D. Lee's staff, "purchased" from a Yank prisoner for $5 Confederate. (Whether it simply satisfied his sense of honor to pay something, or whether the currency was of any use to the prisoner, are interesting questions). Such exchanges with or confiscations from prisoners may have been more common than literally stripping items from dead bodies -

Glenn Davis, a noncommissioned officer of the 5th SC cavalry, told a story after the war about exchanging hats with a prisoner whose life he had saved (he knocked up a comrade's gun because he realized just in time that the man was surrendering). The man exchanged his new hat for Davis' old one as a gesture of thanks (and perhaps under some duress) and when Davis met him after the war he claimed to have exchanged hats five more times before arriving, hatless, at Richmond.

Davis ALSO took a fine pair of silk suspenders off of a dead Yank in Fayetteville, NC, in '65, and wore them for years after the war, but his comrade U.R. Brooks found this remarkable enough to write about, even saying this was likely the only pair of silk suspenders "not on Yankee shoulders" in the South at the time.

[pvtben]

Re: Battlefield Pickups

Ok i am new but i am still gona put my two cents in. Me and my pard talked about this this past weekend and this is what we had come up with. The whole idea of a soldier taking clothing such as pants shirts and such i think would be rare. My father is a parimedic and is around dead all the time. Now i belive that if anyone has been around a soldier or person that has been dead would most likely not even want to get close to the body. Now in the whole battlefield pickup thing i do have faith in But i belive that in if it was not on a body if could have and was most likely picked up. I have read accounts about guns and ammuntion but not clothing. I have had looked at pictures and seen things such as federal canteens and accounterments but who's to say that they were taking off a soldier after he was shot. I hope at least i was able to help with this.

Pvt Ben Jenkins
19th La Infantry

[Smokey Toes]

Re: Battlefield Pickups

I understand your point, and grant that it may have been the attitude of many a soldier at the beginning of their service. However, there are too many accounts stating the exact opposite, which does not support this mentality. Over time and exposure to the battlefield, these same recruits became jaded to the sight of the dead and dying. I believe the fact that their new coat, blanket, shoes or overcoat came off the body of dead man was more of an afterthought than a deterrent, especially if it meant that the article just acquired would get him through another winter or increase his survivability and comfort.

From Bell Wiley's The Life of Johnny Reb,
On April 24th 1862, A war correspondent from the Richmond Daily Dispatch wrote the following after the battle of Shiloh.
"Other results of our victory are also everywhere visible. Unless he knew better, a stranger would mistake our army for first rate Yankees. Fully three-fifths of the men are dressed in Federal hats and overcoats." (page 115)

[marlin teat]

Re: Battlefield Pickups

In my opinion clothing items were more often than not looted from captured stores, knapsacks, etc.

Example:

"Another command of South Carolinians was coming up on their front, we in the rear, and another command on their left. We had them in a pretty close place with only one place to get out, and they got.

They had just issued out their rations. We ran them away and got their grub of salt pork, lard, and old time ground coffee with sugar in it. In addition to rations we got blankets, oilcloths, fly tents, blue overcoats*, axes, and knapsacks filled with good underclothing, which were very accecptable, and a lot of stationary. I filled hy haversack with salt pork, my knapsack with crackers, and my coat pockets with coffee."

William Judkins
22nd Ga., Wright's Brigade
2nd Fredricksburg

*It is believed the the overcoats worn in the famous "Three members of the 3rd Georgia" photograph were among those captured at this time.

[fidlr1]

Re: Battlefield Pickups

[QUOTE=1stMaine]Comrades,
Quote:

.....
It's akin to the notion that bayonets were never used in melee in the CW because there were fewer than 1000 bayonet wounds treated in Federal hospitals.

Excuse me if this gets off the thread a little bit, maybe the fact that only
1000 wounds were treated was because most of the fellows who got stuck never
made it to the hospital...

[marine05]

Re: Battlefield Pickups

It seems to me that while reading an account of Cedar Creek, that one of the reasons the Confederate Attack stalled was that the soldiers were busy looting the Federal camp. I cannot remember the source, but I'll try to find in and post.

Dan McLean

[markj]

Re: Battlefield Pickups

Greetings,

More grist for the mill. This is taken from a letter currently offered for sale on eBay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2221617762&category=36036

I can't vouch for the authenticity of this item but it apparently describes the fighting around Peach Treek Creek GA in July 1864. The man's unit is not mentioned but, given that he states the 70th Indiana was in his brigade, it appears he belonged to one of the other following units:

102nd Illinois
105th Illinois
129th Illinois
79th Ohio
(3rd Division, 1st Brigade, 20th Army Corps)

Check it out:

***
Dear Parents,

.....I suppose you will have heard of the battle in front of Atlanta fought on yesterday. It was a hard struggle but we gained ground. It was a harder fight than any fight we have had this campaign. That is it was the most severe engagement our corps has been in. Our company escaped without a single man being hurt. There was one of our men got scratched on the shoulder by a spent ball. It stiffened his arm a little. That was the only accident in our company. We were very lucky. The regiment lost pretty heavy. We made a spendid movement while advancing against the enemy. I don't think there would have been any fight yesterday but the rebel General Joe Johnston has been superseded by General Hood. Johnston is to report himself at Richmond for not fighting Sherman. Hood led the rebels against us and neither side having breastworks to lay behind we advanced half way and met them. It was a fair fight and if they wont give up now that our forces are superior in everything to theirs and still want to fight us then I must say that they have a plucky army in this department. Hood is more reckless and more daring than Johnston ever was. We cleaned them out yesterday and can do it again if they want to try us. I expect we will have a little fighting to do yet before we get into Atlanta. I don't think there will be much. Capt. Dunlevy told me this morning that he thought we would be in there tonight.....There is an open field across the creek from where I am that was covered thick with dead and wounded rebels. They were mostly dead. Some of them were awful to look at. There is a boy in the 70th Ind in our brigade who found nine twenty dollar gold pieces on a rebel colonel and a gold watch. I have got on a pair of suspenders that I took off a rebel. Mine were entirely worn out or I should not have taken them. The report is that General Hood was killed yesterday.....It is pretty quiet along the lines today. There is some firing on the right at long intervals.....
***

Regards,

Mark Jaeger

[markj]

Re: Battlefield Pickups

Greetings,

I just nailed down a partial ID for the above man based on another letter of his being offered for sale. His name was "Willie" and he served in Company B, 79th Ohio Volunteer Infantry.

Regards,

Mark Jaeger

[Tyler Underwood]

Re: Battlefield Pickups

During the attack on Fort Stedman at Petersburg there was accounts of confederates stoping during battle to take food from the dead and what was left lying around the area. They even went so far as to eat it right there rather than saving it for later.

[hireddutchcutthroat]

Re: Battlefield Pickups

"When we struck the crest I never halted, for my mind was set on some rebel knapsack... ...I found an opportuntity to make a good choice of knapsacks, as the ground was literaly covered with them as though the rebels had been perfectly panic stricken, and in their haste to get away had divested themselves of every pound of wieght they could possibly spare. After looking over a few I chose one which I thought would supply all my needs. Upon examiningmy prize I found a good government blanket, two shirts, two pairs of drawers, a pair of light summer pants, a night cap, a plug of tobacco, and a cornpone."

Levi Wagner
1st Ohio
After the Battle of Missionary Ridge

[hireddutchcutthroat]

Re: Battlefield Pickups

"...the first thing I did after the rebels skedaddled was grab a full haversack and jerk it off a wounded rebel captains neck. He was shot in the shoulder and his hand lay on the open mouth of the haversack on the downhill side. I opened it and divided its contents with my comrades. It was saturated with the rebel captains blood, but we ate it all the same."

Sgt. Thomas Ford
24th Wisconsin

[Jimmayo]

Re: Battlefield Pickups

Sorry to bring this post back but it has taken me a while to find this account.
After the battle of Fredricksburg, John Tee of the 3rd Va. wrote the following in his reminiscence:

“The next day a flag of Truce was agreed on to bury the dead. Mr. Bonserate of our company said to me, John you need a pair of pants, lets go and see if we can get them. We started out and went nearly down to the Rappahanock river and all the bodies had been stripped of clothing, after almost giving up the job we saw a blue object between two hills which proved to be a big Dutchman with a hole through his forehead and one through the leg of the pants, not hitting the flesh however. Mike says “hesitate John, I would not hesitate a minute”. I said to him, take one leg Mike and we soon had the pants. I sat down and put them on. Very bad fit but were better than the ones I had before. I had these pants on when I was captured seven months after this.”

Must not have been soiled too bad since John sat down and immediately put them on.

[roundshot]

Re: Battlefield Pickups

As far as Yanks gleaning from Rebs, there is the account of J ohn Haley of the 17th Maine in front of Petersburg: 9/5/64 " Just previous to our exchange of pickets tonight, I went out and had an interesting interview with a young Johnny Reb . . . He was uncommonly well dressed . . . [and] had one desire that outweighed all others- to get something that belonged to a genuine Yankee. I had on a particularly shoddy cap and I noted he wore a fine one of English make. He seemed perfectly satisfied with the exchange, even though it was not a fair bargain. The usual Southron is alert to our devious character in sharp trading, but this young lad must have been new to the practice." From"The Rebel Yell and Yankee Hurrah."

Bob Williams

[Holy Joe]

Re: Battlefield Pickups

Excellent data provided here...thanks to everyone for sharing!

I've noticed a few instances in the Louisiana Overland and Red River Campaigns of '63 and '64 where Confederate troops and Regimental/Brigade QM's were active in picking up "discarded" items from the battlefield.

Report of Brig. Gen. Tomas Green, C.S. Army

Headquarters Forces on Atchafalaya,
Camp McBride, La., October 2, 1863.

Major: I have the honor herewith to tender a full report of the action on September 29 at the Fordoche Bridge and Mrs. Stirling's place, on the Fordoche, 6 miles from Morganza.....At daylight on the morning of the 29th, the troops were ready for the march. Colonel Henry Gray, commanding Mouton's brigade, was ordered to take up his line of march (Speight's brigade having been added to his command together with 15 mounted men from Waller's battalion, under command of Lieutenant Weisiger) by a trail through the swamp, which intersected the Morganza State road some 4 miles from that place, and between the enemy's forces at Morganza and their advance at Mrs. Stirling's and the Fordoche bridge. Colonel Gray was ordered to attack the enemy's advance at once on reaching the intersection of road, which he did by ordering Speight's brigade, under command of Lieutenant-Colonel Harrison, to the attack....The result of the victory consists of 433 non-commissioned officers and privates and 29 officers prisoners, two 10-pounder Parrott guns in fine order, with cassions complete, 2 new ambulances and 1 hospital wagon, new, filled with medical stores, and 2 stand of regimental colors belonging to the Nineteenth Iowa and Twenty-sixth Indiana Volunteers. Many small arms and accouterments were saved, and every man with an inferior weapon was supplied with a good and efficient one....." [OR XXXVIII p. 329-330]

There is also a Federal report that supports the the supposition that these Trans-Miss rebs were reissuing or "recycling" captured Federal gear;

Hdqrs. Second Division, Thirteenth Army Corps
Morganza, La., September 30, 1863.

Colonel: I have the honor to report that I assumed command of the detachment here at noon on the 28th instant, Major-General Herron leaving at that time.....The road was bad and heavy for marching, and the rain was drenching, and when Colonel Black had proceeded 3 miles, he met Major Montgomery with his cavalry detachment, and from him and stragglers he learned that the enemy had attacked Lieutenant-Colonel Leake's command on all sides at once; had surprised him by coming through the cane and corn fields of the country, as well as by the road, and by first opening the attack in the rear, and being dressed in United States uniforms...." [OR XXXVIII p.322]

And a quote specific to Polignac's Texas Brigade immediately following Mansfield/P. Hill;

"Polignac led his men back to their camps above Mansfield in easy marches on April 10 and 11. There on the 12th, the Texas brigade drew new canteens, cartridge boxes, belts, and bayonets from captured Union stores in preparation for a renewal of fighting." [Barr p.41]