Primer attachment on Sharps Carbines

[Cheyenne]

Hello, this is my first post here as I believe this will be the place to get an answer to a question I have concerning the Sharps Carbine.

None of the current reproductions that I have seen/examined, have the tape primer attachment on the lock plate. Is there a source for this piece and can any of the current carbines be modified to appear correct?

I posted this here since it is a Cavalry arm, I figured some of you would be able to steer me in the right direction.

Thank you

Harvey Lane

[1st Maine Trooper]

Re: Primer attachment on Sharps Carbines

Hello, this is my first post here as I believe this will be the place to get an answer to a question I have concerning the Sharps Carbine.

None of the current reproductions that I have seen/examined, have the tape primer attachment on the lock plate. Is there a source for this piece and can any of the current carbines be modified to appear correct?

I posted this here since it is a Cavalry arm, I figured some of you would be able to steer me in the right direction.

Thank you

Harvey Lane

The 1859 and 1863 model Sharps did not have a tape primer system. They used the Lawrence Pellet primer instead. Currently the only way to get a functional Lawrence system is to either buy an original or buy a Garrett reproduction.

Dave Myrick

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Primer attachment on Sharps Carbines

Hallo Kamerad!

Yes, likely a slip of the key pad.

The Sharps M1851 (some 1,000 believed made) had a tape primer, but the Model 1852 went to the pellet system. Sharps briefly got back into the tape primers for the Model 1855 (and a few M1853's that were remade with tape primers).

In spite of the "Maynard Primer" craze in 1855, the U.S. only bought some 400. The British cavalry seemed to have "liked them better," and 6,000 of a modified version of the M1855 (.577 bore, 18 inch barrel, sights, band, etc.) went to Britain.

At any rate, there are no repro's of the M1851 or M1855 Sharps carbine.

Curt-Heinrich Schmidt

[Cheyenne]

Re: Primer attachment on Sharps Carbines

I do appologise to my comrades, I did mean the Lawrence Pellet Primer, well, as you can tell, I'm a fresh fish and will try to proof read my posts in the future......please forgive this transgression. :cry_smile

At any rate, can one attach the system to a current Repro carbine? Provided you can find the needed parts.

Harvey Lane

[GeraldTodd]

Re: Primer attachment on Sharps Carbines

The part needed is the lock-plate, the primer is machined into and is part of it.

In the old days of $200 Garretts folks would buy Shilos and replace the lock-plate with an original. You can buy a pair of repop carbines for the price of a lock-plate now. Having one machined is about as bad unless you can do it yourself.

All the repops (Shilo, Armi-Sport, Pedersoli) now have a chunk of solid metal where the primer ought to be, but they (not Shilo) smooth off the corners so it looks like melted ice cream instead of a pellet primer. If they had left it the shape it should be, some time with a Dremel could make it into a reasonable, non-functional, facimile. Silly Italians.

Shilos are expensive but reputedly very well made. At $1500+ they'd better be! http://www.shilohrifle.com

Pedersoli is probably the best readily available repop now. They used to offer a working pellet primer but no longer do. It seems they bought out Frank Garrett's parts and when those ran out, no more pellet primers. Pedersolis aren't cheap either at $1190 (Navy Arms) http://www.navyarms.com/html/cw-union.html

Armi Sport does the same melted primer block thing Pedersoli does - probably get the plates from the same place. The rest of the workmanship is, hmmm, "hurried?" Compared to their 42 Springfield you wouldn't think it came from the same company. It's running $650-800 new.

IAB doesn't make any attempt to imply a pellet primer at all. They look something like the old Siles carbines, but not made anywhere near as well. On a shooters forum it was said: "IAB/Pedretti are cheap in both senses of the word. They had a bad reputation but are said to be cleaning up their act. Pedretti is the main source of the "soft parts in Italian rifles" rumors. These are the least authentic, with major modifications made to the original Sharps design. If you are on a tight budget or just want a look-alike (and don't mind gambling) you might consider an IAB/Pedretti." see http://my.net-link.net/~napfn/sharps.htm for more.
http://www.iabarms.com

BTW: The difference between the 59 and the 63 is the serial number. The 63s have a "c." like "c.652" meaning 100,652. The 59s do not. Not all 59s had patch boxes, and some 63s did have them. Some were altered one way or the other usually by ordnance folks replacing damaged stocks with what was on hand.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Primer attachment on Sharps Carbines

Hallo Kameraden!

Just a quick addition to what has already been said.
My memory escapes me at the moment, but without taking an original apart- the Lawrence Priming mechanism is a complicated but ingenious affair with four or five or six (?) internal parts (in an integral extension of the lock plate) and slides that a groove on the underside of the hammer works as it moves- not to mention the pellet primer tube inside of the lockplate with follower, spring, and end screw...

To "restore" one to its CW appearance, the original (or Garrett) lockplate is just the start. :-)

Curt-Heinrich Schmidt
Company "A," 1st USSS (LH)

[Johan Steele]

Re: Primer attachment on Sharps Carbines

I thought Shiloh Sharps offered the pellet primer... upon looking I was wrong. An original plate is the only option unless you can find the specs and a willing machinist.

[JimKindred]

Re: Primer attachment on Sharps Carbines

You still see Garretts for sale at gun shows from time to time. I have one that I bought new in 1979 and it still shoots like a champ, pellet system and all.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Primer attachment on Sharps Carbines

Hallo Kameraden!

I believe it was highly prized Shiloh that came out with the first Sharps repro and "skimped" on the Lawrence system with just a "profile."
Then came the "Sile," which eliminated the "profile" altogether. (Which was great if one got the Shiloh CS/Robinson "Sharps'" brass buttplate and band and did a switch, or swapped out the Sile for an original as I did in the mid '80's with a mint Sharps plate I paid $35 for.)
IMHO, ever since, the various Italians have been copying and modifiying the Shiloh, rather than the original. :-(

At any rate...

The problem is that Itlains altered the Sharps "floating gas check plate" by making it a non-moving part of the breech block face, and substituting a "floating" sleeve in the chamber instead.
The gas check in the block should be able to move so when the power burns gas pressure hits the back of the block and forces the gas check up against the barrel and seal it. INSTEAD, the "Italian System" calls for the "floating sleeve" to move backwards to seal the breech.

Due to random or poor Italian "Quality COntriol," andarious importers further opting for "more or less QC" as part of their pricing structure, etc., etc., some repos has "gas check" so porrly mahined it and fitted that they:

1. Are too long
2. Are too short
3. Do not float
4. Or float for a few rounds and then "coke up" and do not move, which soon "cokes up" the block's rising and fall.

I have talked about having the "floating sleeve" fitted and then permanently "frozen" in place, and the breech block machined for a Sharps type "gas check" on another post a while back.
I have also talked about sanding, emorying. or otherwise polishing the Italian gas sleeve so that it does move as the Italians intended (apologies to Mr. Sharps here..)

In general though, "live firing" is cleaner than "blank firing." The gas pressure geenrated by the burning powder blows backwards as well as out (actually in all directions bu the chamber walls and breeck gets in the way and it quickly seeks the path of least resistance... ;-)
The force of that "blast" serves to drive out unburned powder, burning power, and "charcoal residue" or "coke" out the muzzle.
With blanks, there is nothing to generate force behind (missing bullet), so ther eis less pressure to blow thorugh the breech and barrel - and so the arm shoots "dirtier" and "fouls" faster.

In the case of the blank firing Sharps, and the Italian changes to its "gas check" system- the number of blank rounds that can be fired even when it works as the Italians intended, is severely limited. However, by "fine tuning" th Italian gas sleeve so that it at least works- helps extend the number of rounds fired before the breech block cokes up and freezes.

(With a side note to Mr. Sharps.. the original is not the best design either...if one is looking for high-volume, sustained firing capability. ;-) )

Curt-Heinrich Schmidt
Sharps Shooter and Sharpshooter Mess