Small artillary pieces

[simonk]

This is my first post so please forgive me if I make any errors in protocol.

I have spent the last 6 months trying to find out what were the most easily transportable pieces of artillery used by either side. Apart from mortars and Hales Rockets I have been unable to find anything that would fit the criteria of being easily transportable (i.e. 2-3 men and a pack animal). Am I looking for something that doesn't exist?

Simon Keymer
A Co, 13th Alabama

[Todd Watts]

Re: Small artillary pieces

The common "mountain howitzers" were transportable by a couple of mules/horses either in tow or dismantled and packed on their backs. On fairly level ground 2 men can easily hawl it short distances with a prolong. They are most commonly found in the 12 pdr variety, but smaller ones are known to have existed as well, all the way down to the 3 pdr which has a bore not much larger than a golf ball. Made of bronze, usually, they were a great little piece that could come in fast and get out fast. They were useless when the bigger field pieces came onto the field, but for getting along with cavalry raiders, or through dense woods, they could wreck infantry lines where bigger pieces simply could not keep up. There were some other smaller guns around, but these are commonly available today.

[Johan Steele]

Re: Small artillary pieces

There is some thought that small signal guns/ boat guns were used in the TMD & against the Indians. To be honest I doubt it; but the train of thought is out there and I have to admit I've seen enough documentation to make me wonder.

That documentation being a letter detailing setting a gun at the corner of the road and firing a couple hand fulls of .36 balls into the face of a column of rebels. I questioned the authenticity of the letter simply because I trust the man who showed it to me about as far as I can throw him... so. That said the letter & piece I have viewed are compelling and they could be transported by a single pack mule or horse.

THere were also some small guns in CS service such as the 2" bronze gun in Atlanta & the 1.5" Ellsworth breechloading rifles in US service.

Field Artillery Weapons of the Civil War by Hazlett, Olmstead & Parks details them.

[1st Maine Trooper]

Re: Small artillary pieces

This is my first post so please forgive me if I make any errors in protocol.

I have spent the last 6 months trying to find out what were the most easily transportable pieces of artillery used by either side. Apart from mortars and Hales Rockets I have been unable to find anything that would fit the criteria of being easily transportable (i.e. 2-3 men and a pack animal). Am I looking for something that doesn't exist?

Simon Keymer
A Co, 13th Alabama

One has to wonder why?

Dave Myrick

[Minieball577]

Re: Small artillary pieces

Concerning the 1.5 inch Ellsworth guns, you may enjoy the following articles.

http://www.nwtskirmisher.com/useful-extra5.shtml

http://www.nwtskirmisher.com/useful-extra4.shtml

There are really a pretty daunting array of little guns like this if you start to do some reading. They often do not show up on Ordnance returns, and seem to often be attached to infantry units.

[simonk]

Re: Small artillary pieces

One has to wonder why?

Dave Myrick

Good question. 8-)

I'm looking for a winter project but whatever I make has to be not too big and easily transportable.

Simon Keymer
Co A 13th Alabama

[AZFarrier]

Re: Small artillary pieces

Simon
Out here on the fronteer (Arizona and New Mexico) mountin howitzers are very common. There refered to as Jackass Batteries (have a picture at home that I'll send tomorrow- on shift at the fire house right now), and for this rugged terrain out here that was the best way to transport artillery (on the back of a horse). When the war started the majority of the artillery units were shipped back east, so to man artillery pieces that remaining cavalry units and infantry units were assigned to man the guns. During the battle of Valverde NM all of the conferedate guns were mountain howitzers (6 and 12 pounders). The union though had several 12 pounders (larger mountain howitzers) and one 24 pounder that the 1st US Cavalry (can't remember what company) manned and carried onto the field by flying artillery. Unfortunatly the Confederates made a daring charge and secured several guns (the Valverde Battery), and allowed the 24 pounder to be retrieved by the union when a ceise fire was called in order to attend to the wounded. A little further west, in July 1862 one company of California infantry, a detachment of California cavalry and a jackass battery was attacked by Cochise and Mangus Colorados in Apache Pass, AZ (battle of Apache Pass). The indians were held at bay and were fired upon by the jackass battery until withdrawing, unknown how many apache dead but there were but there was 2-3 union casualties including a gunner from the said jackass battery, he was captured and tortured in Apache fashion then was exacuted before they withdrew.

In a little further east I know Nathan Bedford Forrest used Jackass Batteries on several battles, but the guns were carried by horses not mules, because mules wouldn't go toward the fighting and there for were not good animals to use to flank your opponant.
I hope this helps.
Andy Miller
1st CAL Cav

[Todd Watts]

Re: Small artillary pieces

There was also another small gun that Lincoln actually was interested in. THe objective with them was to have 1-2 of them assigned per reg't of infantry since they were light enough to be moved around by men and ideally could move with infantry on the field. I have seen a picture or two of them and I think they were called "Potter Guns" or something similar. I had a guy forward some info on them to me a year or so ago but can't seem to locate it now. From what I remember of the picture, the wheels were light and skinny, but had a radius that was quite a bit larger than the Mt. Howitzers. Something almost like a buggy or carriage wheel. The tube was iron and looked to be only about 3' long and was about a 2" bore size. The stock was slender as well and had some sort of a "T" handle on the trail. The data seemed to suggest the Lincoln Admin authorized the purchase of several thousand of them but how many actually were made was unknown.

I have seen a small thick cast iron tube that was rejected for whatever reason because the knob had been broken off to prevent its ever being turned in a lathe. It is owned by Harold Winstead of Manchester, TN who said he picked it up in an old estate sale. The story he heard was that the CS army was interested in small guns that could be assigned to individual infantry regts and this is thought to have been an attempt at that. It looks like a miniature Columbiad, rounded and thicker in the rear and has a slight muzzle swell. The bore is about 2" diameter. It is severely rusted and terribly rough on the outside in part because it was never lathe-turned. It may actually just be some home metal-worker's project from 50+ years ago, but the story is interesting and if true he has the South's answer to the North's own idea to have smaller lighter artillery for infantry use.

[Todd Watts]

Re: Small artillary pieces

I take that back, it was not a "Potter" it was a "Woodruff Gun." It was iron and was a little 2" bore. Another small and even lighter gun swas a "Williams Rifle" which was a slender tube on the thin carriage I saw. It had an even smaller bore, but being rifled fired a conical that probably weighed a bit more than the Woodruff's smooth bore ball.

[AZFarrier]

Re: Small artillary pieces

Here is one picture I found, I'm sure you all have seen it but if not here goes. Generally there are 3 horses/mules carrying the mountain howitzer, one for the cannon, one for the carrage and one for the cason (spelled wrong). If could be mounted this way also.

Andy Miller
1st CAL Cav

[simonk]

Re: Small artillary pieces

Many thanks to all of you who have replied, i've now got some good info to think about. If evrything works out well I'll post some pics in the Spring.

Again, many thanks.

Simon Keymer
Co A 13th Alabama

[Stonewall_Greyfox]

Re: Small artillary pieces

Several years ago, I remember seeing a small canon at the UDC Warren Rifles Museum in Winchester, VA. This piece was labelled as a signal gun...unfortunately, I do not have pics of this odd piece...does anyone have information on the use of said "signal gun/cannon" during the ACW?

Paul

[threepdr]

Re: Small artillary pieces

The only small bore gun that saw any use was the Woodruff gun that was mentioned before. About 30 were made during the war in both smooth bore and rifled. It had a bore size of about 2.25 inches - a two pounder - if you used poundage as nomenclature. The tube only weighed about 300lbs. For shot, a twelve pounder grape shot (not canister ball) was a perfect fit. All were used in the west, especially the Trans-Mississippi and were most often attached to Cav Regiments and manned by troopers in the command. The two largest engagement that come to mind were they were used was Helena AR and Pilot Knob Mo.

Several of the tubes have survived, two of which are at the West Point museum. There is no record as to what the carriages looked like, but there were reports of the carriages and limbers breaking down on the Woodruff guns taken along on Greirson's Raid in Mississippi.

The guns were generally thought to not offer a large enough projectile to be effective, especially for the amount of work invested in moving and maintaining the guns.

I have been able to find no reference to any three pounders used during the ACW, except those still on Revenue Cutters. The 3 pounder had been phased out as standard size in the Army before the War of 1812. Bore size on the three pounder is 2.92 inch by the way. This is why Robert Parrott made his first rifled cannon in 2.9 inch instead of 3 inch. He had old 3 pounder boring equipment on hand already.

Here are some pics of my Rev War three pounder:
http://news.webshots.com/album/231133419pBaOUJ

[redroosterinalabama]

Re: Small artillary pieces

The Woodruff were, in my view, the most interesting. There is one on display (tube only) at West Point and a collector in Ga. has an original. Lincoln had many people calling on him weekly for all sorts of favors. One favor seeker was a Mr. Woodruff, seeking approval for the manufacture of the 2 pounder. The Ordnance Dept. told himthey were too small to be effective. But Lincoln insisted and several were manufactured. Most famous of which traveled with Grierson on his raid thru Mississippi. It was said determined infantry could overtake them, and mountain howlitzers for that matter. Don't know.
For years I served on a mt. howlitzer battery. They had 2" bores and we shot live a 2", 2pound lead ball, and of course, pistol balls. We could hit a pallet (wood) at 100 yds easy, and have hit them at 200 yds. Balls that missed felled some 2-3 inch pines. 1/3 to 1/4 pound of powder.
mike boyd